Telemann Canonic Sonatas
 

Telemann Canonic Sonatas

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Telemann Canonic Sonatas    02:47 on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Adhmaid
(34 points)

I've heard about Telemann's Canonic Sonatas from two trusted sources… I've been able to view some sheetmusic for it, but the trouble is, all of what I've seen is in one of two different keys. For instance, the first sonata is in some places in G major and in others in Bb. I'd like to hear any comments about which is the good one, or if both are.

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    06:29 on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

Hi,
First, there are 6 Canonic Sonatas in the set of Op.5. They can be purchased as the set published by International Music Co. Catalog #1901.
The first Sonata is in G maj.
Second in D maj.
Third in a Min.
Fourth in d min.
Fifth in A maj.
Sixth in g min.

I would say that if you've seen any of these sonatas in other keys, then they are written in different keys (Transposed) to make it possible for other instruments like the Alto Recorder to play. I would choolse the origianl keys for the flute.

There is also a set of 6 other duets for flute (Opus #2.) which IMHO are much more enjoyable for players that I'd highly recommend. Aside for a few mistakes in the parts, G. Shirmer has them in their catalog as Ed. 3284. "George Philipp Telemann Six Sonatas for two Flutes Edited by Louis Moyse.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio



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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    07:36 on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Patrick
(1743 points)

I recently got a copy of the canonic sonatas on ebay in the Urtext(original) version from pub. Barenreiter for a great price and condition

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    01:23 on Thursday, April 06, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Adhmaid
(34 points)

Thanks for your answers. I play treble recorder, but I figured it would somehow be better to post in the flute forum.

I have all six sonatas in the keys Bilbo mentions. Apart from those, I have the third movement of the fifth sonata; it's another edition and it's in a different key. It's in A minor (and fits the treble beautifully). Because of that, I asked if that movement was transposed and I was told it was the original key; I looked up in a few places, music shops and the like, and apparently people don't agree on which is correct. All the diifferent sheetmusic seems to be in one of two different keys.

Patrick, your music is in the keys Bilbo said, right?

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    05:32 on Thursday, April 06, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

Hi,
hmmmm...The third mvt of Sonata 5 Op5 is in the key of A MAJOR here. It's labeled a Scherzando in 6/8. It does have a middle section which has an unusual key change written into the key signatture for a minor. but goes back to A MAj. in ms. 77. Very rare for Baroque and even Style Gallant music writing.
When I suggested that the pieces may be transposed, this would be intended then for Alto recorder. The treble rec. generally handles the same notes of the flute but sounding up an octave of course.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    08:26 on Thursday, April 06, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Adhmaid
(34 points)

OK, so let me get things straight. The pdf I have with all six sonatas is Urtext (I didn't know what this means before) and the movement I mentioned is in AM, like you sat it should be. Then the other music I have for only that movement is in CM (I don't know what I was thinking about). So AM is the real key and CM is a transposition.

Although I like music to fit the instrument I'm playing (i.e. not to have lower notes than is possible, for instance notes below F on a treble/alto recorder), since the trasposition of all the sonatas isn't easily available to me at the moment I'll just have to switch to violin to play the sonatas in their original key.

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    12:06 on Thursday, April 06, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

"OK, so let me get things straight. The pdf I have with all six sonatas is Urtext (I didn't know what this means before) and the movement I mentioned is in AM, like you sat it should be. Then the other music I have for only that movement is in CM (I don't know what I was thinking about). So AM is the real key and CM is a transposition.

Although I like music to fit the instrument I'm playing (i.e. not to have lower notes than is possible, for instance notes below F on a treble/alto recorder), since the trasposition of all the sonatas isn't easily available to me at the moment I'll just have to switch to violin to play the sonatas in their original key."

In case you are confusing the Soprano.treble and Alto recorders.
Soprano Recorders and Treble/Alto Recorders are in a different key (Usually in F, I believe). The Soprano reads down to middle C on the Piano and is pitched in C but sounds an octave higher like the Piccolo. The Alto reads down to the F above it. However, sometimes recorder players do transpose in their heads. If you had two Altos and read the Telemann Canons as if the fingerings were for the Soprano, then it would sound fine.

It was also fairly common for musicians to read music that was not for their instrument. Suchas a Flute reading Violin or Oboe music.

Urtext means as close as possible to the original. Sometimes discrepancies exist where it's hard to decipher what the composer actually wrote. This is different from edited versions where an individual (usically of some repute) modifies the score with common changes such as articulation, breath marks, embellishments, accidentals "to make it sound better" and such.

A sonata has three or more movements. The first and last generally define the tonality and are usually in the same key.
So Sonata #5 is generally in A major with three sharps. The 1 Vivace and the 3 Scherzando have this. The 2nd slower mvt Cantabile. is really in b minor with two sharps. Just as many individual movements migrate through keys during the movement, so do sonatas but they should end in the same key that they started in. This sonata is wweird in that it has b minor as the 2nd mvt because the key cohange would have been more normal if it were in E major a minor f# minor or even e minor but b minor is unusual since it's not very related to A major.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

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Re: Telemann Canonic Sonatas    07:09 on Friday, April 07, 2006 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Adhmaid
(34 points)

"In case you are confusing the Soprano.treble and Alto recorders.
Soprano Recorders and Treble/Alto Recorders are in a different key (Usually in F, I believe). The Soprano reads down to middle C on the Piano and is pitched in C but sounds an octave higher like the Piccolo. The Alto reads down to the F above it. However, sometimes recorder players do transpose in their heads. If you had two Altos and read the Telemann Canons as if the fingerings were for the Soprano, then it would sound fine."

I wasn't confusing them. In fact, treble sounds an octave lower than descant, treble sounds "the real notes", and its lowest note is F below middle C.

Transposing is what's what I do most of the time, since I have more music around for descant than for treble. But in this case it would be a problem since I know nobody else who plays treble; the idea is to play with a flute and a violin, hopefully, in a near future (separately of course).

   

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