Handmade Vs. "Commercial"

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What do you feel is the major difference between a hand made flute and a commercially manfactured flute?

I started thinking the other day about how much more expensive hand made flutes usually cost and wondered why that would be the case. I keep thinking it is one of those things where a machine could be so much more precise than a human, so why take the time to make one by hand? Just curious.

JButky
(471 points)

The main difference is the amount of personal attention that goes into manufacture. Machines don't simply crank out flutes. Tooling needs to be adjusted from time to time, and certain operations (such as pad seating) is not done well by machines.

As always, true craftsmanship is in the details and understanding of the instrument by the craftsman. A handmade instrument has a person to inspect and correct and adjust at every stage of operation.

Joe B

Patrick
(1437 points)

sometimes you need to hold one of these fine horns in your hands to see what Joe is talking about, there is something about the keywork and feel of a fine Haynes, Powell, Brannen, Landell, etc that is hard to put into words, not to mention the soldered tone holes which, to me, make a big difference in the tone

Patrick
(1437 points)

JButky
(471 points)

Patrick...I hear(read) an echo...

Joe B <G>

Micron
(1356 points)

IMHO, as a handmade-flute player, and having fingers well-trained in sensitive feel, the differences are so small that for all but the upper echelons of flute players, they would barely be noticed. I am just as happy playing a base line Muramatsu as my handmade one.

Handmade flutes typically have no adjusting screws, which really offers no advantage, but takes up an enormous amount of expensive time for adjustment both at manufacture and subsequently. In an engineering sense, there are DIS-advantages in having no adjusting screws. For some people, adjusting screws "look" cheap. That, to me, is pathetic. Do pivot screws also look cheap?

Handmade flutes typically use harder pads, which means that there MUST be high-precision levelness in the tone holes, and greater attention to detail when adjusting pads to seal. This is all very time consuming, and needs skilled labour. Harder pads do offer a different, more positive feel, but only if the adjustment is immaculate, which is not all that common, neither from manufacturers nor technicians, judging from what I have encountered! Possibly, teh firm pad concept is currently being pushed just a little too far from what is realistic. Extra firm pads possibly also offer a difference in tone &/or reponse. They are also more noisy when they slap down on the tone holes.

Handmade flutes often have soldered tone holes. This adds enormously to the expert time needed at manufacture. However they are easier to make level, and possiblykeep this levelness better, depending on the techniques used for rolled tone holes.

It is these sorts of things, that consume enormous amounts of very expensive, expert labour, that puts the price up.

IMO there is also an enormous element of extracting as much money from the buyer as can possibly be extracted. Those buyers who see prestige in handmade flutes are more prepared to spend large sums, so the manufacturers oblige by charging the earth.

IMO there may also be an element of supply and demand. If flutes with the "handmade" features were cheaper, more people would order them, and there may well be not enough skilled craftsmen to make them. So the solution is to put the price up to reduce demand and make more profit.

I also think there has to be an element of snobbery at play here, people are prepared to pay dearly for their snobbery. Of course the manufacturers are happy to oblige, by putting the price up.

Note that the other woodwinds have not embraced this very expensive label of "handmade", even though many of them, especially oboes, are made to equally exacting standards.

Penny
(218 points)

I'm not sure about handmade flutes. But I know that string instruments are generally preferred to be handmade. The guitar for example, when made by a machine always has several different parts that has to be glued together and after awhile the glue can begin to come off. Like Patrick and Joe B said, handmade intruments have more craftmenship and the maker has the brain to fix anything that's not working right, while a machine doesn't.

I know a guy who makes guitars by hand and most of them are generally carved out of a huge block of wood, so you don't have to worry about leaks coming out the sides. A machine generally can't carve like that.

But thats the guitar. The flute is more complex and has springs in areas that are almost impossible to get to. A machine would have more accuracy when it comes to small things like that. And like Micron said, alot of people buy handmade flutes because of it's value.

Conlusion: Insruments with alot of small mechanisms are best made by machines. Although Machines may not be capable of testing them or being able to fix them when they are broken, the odds of getting a dudd is very rare.

JButky
(471 points)

Handmade flutes typically use harder pads, which means that there MUST be high-precision levelness in the tone holes

Not necessarily harder per se, but often thinner which does add a dimension to the term "harder".

Pro flutes rolled tone holes are no better than anybody elses. Soldered tone holes are "generally" more level than rolled. The soldered ones are actually easier to make (as you've pointed out). Rolled tone holes require a lot more tooling.

Many flutists are under the impression that soldered tone holes are better than rolled. All that can really be said is that they are different on few different levels.

Possibly, teh firm pad concept is currently being pushed just a little too far from what is realistic.

That is an interesting observation Micron. I have not noticed the firm pad concept being "pushed". There are many variations in pad design out there, but I don't see an overall trend towards moving to hard pads. The industry already knows that doesn't work. Most of the pad prototyping right now has to do with stability. If anything, from what they've learned, they are moving away from the harder pad idea.

Extra firm pads possibly also offer a difference in tone &/or reponse.

Those are at best claims that marketers have invented to sell their products though and bear very little resemblance to reality.

Joe B

Micron
(1356 points)

I meant harder in the loose sense that a thinner mattress tends to be "harder" - hardness being a function of both materials and thickness.

"Those are at best claims that marketers have invented to sell their products though and bear very little resemblance to reality."

Those are my thoughts too. I was being generous with the use of the word "possibly". My "possibly is based on the notion that if the entire flute was lined with a relatively soft material like pad material, then I am sure there would be a tonal difference. Therefore a softer material bore possibly makes a difference. Therefore softer pads possibly makes a difference.

Micron
(1356 points)

Peny wrote, "I know a guy who makes guitars by hand and most of them are generally carved out of a huge block of wood, so you don't have to worry about leaks coming out the sides. A machine generally can't carve like that."

Modern CNC machines can indeed do that, very accurately and very quickly, but they are far too expensive for the home craftsperson.

schoolgirl0125
(613 points)

Interesting stuff you guys. We had a discussion in class about handmade and machinemade products. Ppl are interested in handmade products because it's unique from machinemade. Every handmade products are slightly different from others..and also knowing that a person put time and effort to make it is special^^

Leporello
(152 points)

I've noticed that here in the Netherlands, even intermediate flutes seem to be fairly uncommon, let alone professional ones, with some flutist using Yamaha 200 series student flutes all the way through the conservatorium (music college) even. I know a number of advanced students who after several years, finally buy their own after years of renting, and go straight for the silverplated models. No silver head, no B-foot, pretty much all with an e-mech. The Yamaha YFL-211 is the standard it seems.

I don't know whether we're that cheap, that boring, or that sensible...

Micron
(1356 points)

To me, it sounds 95% sensible. A professional head would be nice.

Handmade Vs. "Commercial"

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