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aoah
(18 points)
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So I'm playing piccolo in band this year and there are THREE others...I say that we have 4 too many piccolos but it's marching season so why not. But I was just wondering...is it normal for the piccolo to sound SO out of TUNE??
I've heard that the piccolo can never be in tune and especially with the other ones but my notes sound like COMPLETELY different notes than the ones I'm playing. My teacher heard it and she told me to pull out and when I did the head joint came out. I obviously had it pulled out as far as it would go already.
I've checked the cork. The line thing is in the middle of the hole. So the cork is okay - I still don't know what I'm doing wrong. This IS my first year playing piccolo but can I just get some tips on what kind of aperture to have or something?? Please and thank you.
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.JPG)
Patrick
(1468 points)
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this question has come up on this forum several times, work with a tuner, and a keyboard and become familiar with pitch tendencies of the piccolo, work with the other piccolo players together in ensemble, these ideas will help, if you can get a picc to sound in tune all else will be easier
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Flutist06
(1545 points)
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Is it common for piccolos to be out of tune, especially with each other? Yes. Is it normal? No. A good picc player can tune a piccolo to be perfectly in tune, regardless of range, instrumentation, dynamic, or any other variable, assuming their instrument is in proper working order. With some practice, I'm sure you'll get better at it. I've played in groups with 4 piccolos before, and we never had any difficulty playing in tune. It is absolutely NOT true that a piccolo can never be in tune. What is true is that it is difficult to play well, and very few people ever dedicate any serious practice time to playing piccolo, so the abundance of people blowing into a picc do sound terribly out of tune with whatever group they're performing in. Having the headjoint out all the way certainly will not help matters. Like flutes, there is one position where the scale of the instrument is best (i.e. where every note requires a minimum of adjustment to sound in tune), and having the head out as far as possible is not the proper location. As a starting place, try perhaps 2 or 3 mm out. Now to truly develop your picc playing, you must devote some time to practicing piccolo. Playing longtones on scales with a tuner is a good way to build your intonation and tone. Remember when you are playing picc that it takes a more focused airstream, but that you want your embouchure to remain relaxed. Tightening the embouchure can cause problems when you get into the upper register with a thin sound, throat noises, or perhaps not even being able to produce the upper pitches at all. To help you play in tune with the other piccs, try going off alone with them some time and playing things....scales, chords, parts of the marching music, etc. to help you become more comfortable with their playing and intonation tendencies. Once you become more comfortable on piccolo (and better at tuning), there are many alternate fingerings that can be used on piccolo to help adjust pitch or get a better response from certain notes, and some of these might be useful to you, but first you need to build a solid base with the basic fingerings. Truly the best thing you can do is just keep playing with groups. No one is perfect when they start on piccolo, and it can take some time to adjust to picc after playing flute. It really is a different animal from the flute. I hope that helped, and good luck!
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DottedEighthNote
(180 points)
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Aoah,
One of the main problems I feel most piccolo players have is not supporting well out of fear that you will stick out. Unfortunately this leads to a common tendency to shirk back from playing well.
Make sure you are breathing and supporting correctly. Also...BLOW. Just do it. You know you want to  . Ok, that is kind of a joke, but proper air support does fix a significant amount of tuning issues. I can guarantee you that unless you are playing a quiet piece on field most people are still not going to be able to hear you. The brass has the ability to project right into your face anyway because of bell placement. Unless someone tells you to back down play until your heart is content.
Once you build a confidence in your playing you will be able to hear the pitch problems easier and adjust your playing to compensate for the issues. If you intend on sticking it through with picc, and I highly recommend it, you will want to practice anywhere from 30 min to an hour a day on picc and flute. You will probably find your high register on flute will get much better while your low range may suffer. If you consisently practice both you will stay in shape for both.
What pieces are you playing? Do you have any particularly neat picc parts?
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aoah
(18 points)
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All of you, thank you so much. Yes, I am definitely afraid of sticking out and I'm afraid of being loud because everyone will be able to hear me if I mess up. So I guess that just leads to where you mentioned I need more confidence and I can't deny that. I guess I do need to get used to the piccolo though. I've only had it for like 4 days.
I have tried to work with the tuner before but I gave up after an hour because some of my notes would be so flat that they would be a different note. Especially the LOWER register...I found that rolling out helps that but I can only roll out so much until it won't play. And I was reading and it said somewhere that you aren't supposed to roll in or out...but that's what I've been taught and it's worked for me mostly...[on the flute, that is.]
The main song we've been working on is "Variations on a Korean Folk Song". It's a really neat piece but it's for concert and I have no idea why we're marching to it.
So I'll work with the tuner more and use more air. I have a hard time keeping my embouchure relaxed. When I go higher the muscles around my lips tend to tighten. It's like a reflex and I don't realize I'm even doing it...Should I just try to make sure the muscles are relaxed when I play? I've done that before and it kinda slowed me down.
The other three piccolos at my school are juniors and seniors so I asked them about it and they said that they've never been able to get a good sound on one so they had no advice for me. You guys have been very helpful...I really can't thank you enough.
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Patrick
(1468 points)
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be sure not to roll a flute or picc to play in tune, use your jaw to control the angle of the air up or down, if you roll a flute in the pitch will go down but sound stuffy
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RC20.jpg)
Zevang
(207 points)
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aoah,
Take care not to develop a fear of playing, just because you think that you are the one out of tune.
This could cause you not to hear yourself, and maybe get you more and more out of tune.
It's difficult though to play with 3 other piccolists, trying to get in tune, when nobody knows who is the reference. At the orchestra we always hear the 1st oboe, who is responsible for stabilizing the tunning.
Maybe it's a matter of rehearsing separately, just the piccolos, or maybe with one of the flutists, to develop this sense of reference, and facilitate all the work.
cheers,
Zevang
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Flutist06
(1545 points)
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As Jose Luis said, you really need to overcome the habit of rolling in and out to correct for pitch. It's a terrible habit that also affects tone production, and does not work particularly well (as you noticed, the amount you can compensate by rolling without completely losing the tone is limited). You need to learn to adjust with your mouth/air by altering the angle of the air, the volume of air used, etc. Also, as you mentioned that you notice notes are significantly flat, this ties into what I said about not having the head pulled out as far as you said you do. Pulling the head out will flatten the pitch, and pushing in will sharpen it. If you play with the head pulled out just slightly, rather than all the way out, not only will you notice that the low register is far less flat, but also that the rest of the range is much closer to in tune naturally.
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Flutist06
(1545 points)
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Also, don't be afraid of being heard. It's useful to be able to play loudly (I've been asked to match the volume of an 8 member trumpet section in concert pieces before), and marching band is a good place to develop this skill (and the confidence necessary to be a good picc player). Just keep in mind that you will also need to be able to play pp, even into the third register, so be sure you have a good dynamic range. Since you've only had the picc for 4 days, don't expect too much too soon....Over time, you'll notice improvement, but it's not going to happen immediately.
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Flutist06
(1545 points)
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Sorry Patrick! I'm not used to that new picture...It looks an awful lot like Jose Luis' at a quick glance! That'll teach me not to read the name!
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Summers
(54 points)
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if you are going to be practing the flute and piccolo, then make sure to always start off on flute.
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Micron
(1411 points)
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"...I have tried to work with the tuner before but I gave up after an hour because some of my notes would be so flat that they would be a different note. Especially the LOWER register...I found that rolling out helps that but I can only roll out so much until it won't play...."
IMHO:
Rolling out does two things:
1. It makes you lip cover the embouchure hole less.
2. It means the airstream hits the far wall of the embouchure hole closer to right angles, rather than blowing down at an angle at the wall.
Both of these changes are necessary to stop playing extremely flat.
The important thing is that both of these changes need you to blow a faster airstream in order to keep the piccolo playing. And a faster airstream in itself, makes the pitch a lot higher.... and LOUDER! - which you are probably scared of!
And yes, as others have said, it is better not to make rolling adjustments WHILE you are playing. It is a practice which is difficult to keep up as you play faster. Get the flute/picc inm a good position and leave it there......
So.....
- Keep the embouchure hole facing directly upwards, towards the ceiling.
- Cover only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the embouchure with your lip.
- Keep your lips one above the other, NOT with your upper lip sticking out further than your lower one. (You may need to slide your chin forward for this.)
- Keep your head up, looking straight ahead.
- Aim your airstream STRAIGHT AHEAD. (Actually, even when you THINK you are aiming it straight ahead, it will automatically be diverted down, because of the presence of the flute against your lower lip. You can test that this is true by blowing straight ahead into the palm of your hand without the flute/picc, and then putting the flute/picc headjoint, or even just a finger, against your chin while blowing. You will feel the airstream being diverted down by the presence of the flute/picc/finger.)
- And finally, and very important, blow the air fast enough to make a loud, clear sound. If there is no sound, you probably are not blowing it fast enough. For the higher notes, this will be very fast indeed, much faster than for a flute.
By blowing the air fast like this, it will probably be scarily loud, especially for the higher notes, but at least they are more likely to be in tune. With a lot more practice, and keeping that airstream just as fast, but skinnier (incidentally saving air), you will eventually control the volume as well.
I hope that helps a little. Do it with a tuner in front of you, and also try it in front of a mirror (at face height, when you are standing)to see just what you are doing.
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aoah
(18 points)
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Someone told me that you were supposed to blow down INTO the flute instead of across it. I tried that when they told me but it didn't work for me so I went back to blowing across it like I was taught. They also told me not to move my jaw. Were they wrong? Thank you again, you guys.
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DottedEighthNote
(180 points)
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Aoah,
Jaw placement can effect many things when you are playing flute. In my experience there are situations where moving your jaw in completely necessary. I am not sure why someone would tell you to never move your jaw unless you were doing it so much it was causing an issue somewhere else.
I agree that rolling in and out is not a great way to learn to compensate for pitch on a flute. What will you do if you get sweaty hands?! The majority of the time a simple lift or lowering of the chin is enough change in airstream direction to effect the pitch. Also opening your mouth while playing in more of an O shape can also effect pitch.
http://www.jennifercluff.com/intermed.htm
Jenn Cluff has several articles on her site that might give you good information.
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