Hey Dennis,
I grew up listeing to 80's music too and have always loved it. Good times!
I will copy that music for you when I can figure out how to do it. I have done it before, so just give me some time.

no problem...thanks!!

That memory aspect is an important part of our musical appreciation. I tend to gravitate towards the music of my youth also, maybe because it reminds me of events from that time. This is very important to what we perefer to hear or even play. Only issue lately is that my music from my youth is being used in tv drug and dieting commercials ~which make me hate that ofending company for trying to capitalize on my fond memories. Our education in how music works can help us to have a bit more control over us being manipulated by advertising.
Now in the case of the Titanic, I'm amazed at certain modern movies and how effectively the soundtracks are used to control the moods. Titanic is a good one for that but from what I understand, Horner kind of is a bit shady for the subject matter of his themes. I believe that I recognized the remnants of a Bob Dylan song in his Titanic music.

Oldies here might remember The Modern Jazz Quartet. That was my first contact with jazz music (maybe not jazz for purist) and I keep so good memories of some songs they played... I think Moon River was one of them. I had never heard the vibrophone (sp?) before them.

Yeah Jose..
good stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct7WgG9S7xU

If I may, It's Vibraphone

I didn't find them doing Moon River but I did find this version for Fl and Harp.
This guy isn't afraid of the high notes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZAUBYudm2o

Dennis -

Yes, playing by ear is so easy, that you can even forget about all the modes even. I just let my fingers do the walkin' and the song comes out. This is how it is for me at least. I find if I waste time even with a mode it bogs me down. It's a cool thing to break music down scientifically, but in the end, it's the feelings conveyed that make the music sound so wonderful and I like to concentrate on that first and foremost. My Taekwondo teacher once said that if you have to think about the moves, you can't do the moves fluently (Talking about doing a Kata or a Form.)

I loved reading your posts on learning to play by ear. You have bridged the gap from the mechanical to the mental. You reached out there and got them to see that music can be easily done without music at all. I liked that.

Let's face it, sheet music is sold, therefore you know darn well it has copyrights on it. It says so on the sheet music. If the person is alive and wants to sue, you could get into trouble.

So just learn to play by ear! You nailed it Dennis. Nice!

Thanks azflutist! I wouldn't say it's simple to learn, but once you get the hang of it it comes more "naturally" even if not natural at all.

-Dennis

And yes for some people playing by ear can be a total chore. It comes down to what your natural gifts are to some extent. I was always a good ear player, sheet music was not beyond me, but my real strength was my ear. I still have tons of sheet music, and to make sure I am playing the correct notes I use it. I just pretty much memorize any song I perform, even when I have play in church every week. I can memorize the music really fast because I don't memorize the notes, I memorize the way the song "feels".

I think it is a little like speed reading. You read 3, 4 or more lines at the same time, and skip the words completely. Then you know what is going on in the end actually as well or better than someone who read it word for word. Don't ask me to explain this, I just know it works, really well. It all comes down to conceptualization. (Man, that word is way to long!)

Anyway, for people with weaker natural ears for music, you have like I said before, bridged the gap. I am still reading your posts on modes (Dorian, Ionian etc.) and you showed a clear understanding. I think you could also talk about memorizing the circle of 5ths as another place to teach ear training. The ability to understand a 4th from a 5th and the relative minors makes music break open even wider for the more scientific player, and allows them to jump into the fantasy world of ear training.

Again, keep up these kinds of posts Dennis, I am learning just from reading yours, and I like to see how other people approach music. It is clear that no matter who you are, no 2 people approach music the same way. That is why it is called an art not a science!

Ok, why are all my posts like some kind of soap box? What the heck is wrong with me!!???!!!

well...if you believe that my scientific standpoints are bridging the gap...then I guess anyone who has questions regarding ear training and the like can open a new thread where I will answerquestions about how I think of things or about the way I use the theory behind the ear training. As far as the last post re: telling the difference between the intervals...there are corny songs that can help you pick out intervals. I am sure you can google "recognizing music intervals" and get something that will tell you. The main ones I use for pop music are:

Perfect 4th (P4)- "Here Comes" the Bride - the interval between Here and Comes is the P4. It is also normally the pick-up note (anacrusis) to a piece...scale degree 5 to scale degree 1 a la Appalachain Spring clarinet solo.

Perfect 5th (P5) - Star Wars Main Theme. The first two notes after the intro make the P5...if you don't know where this is exactly if someone can post a recording of this piece somewhere i can tell you at what second the theme starts.

Major 6th (M6) - "My Bon"-nie lies over the ocean. M6 between My and the first syllable of Bonnie.

Major 7th (M7) - 80's song by AHA...Take on Me. It's the first interval the first time they say "Take on Me"...those three words are scale degrees 1-7-1 respectively. So, Take and On are seperated by a M7

Perfect Octave (P8) - "Some-Where" Over the Rainbow. Some and Where are seperated by the P8.

I also think about the pattern of pop music..where thethree main chords are I, IV, and V. Let's use C major to make it easy:

I - C, E, G..or 1, 3, 5 in scale degrees.
IV - F, A, C...4, 6, 1 (Remember that 1 and 8 are the same note...but there isn't an 8 in scale degrees)
V - G, B, C...5, 7, 2
--Sometimes there is a V7 chord...which contains G, B, D, F...5, 7, 2, 4

In pop music more than not...the V or V7 chord will always lead to I...therefore when you break the music down into its 4 measure phrases you will frequently start on I and end on V (V7). That leaves 2 measures to figure out. There are 5 options...

I, I, IV, V
I, I, I, V
I, I, V, V
I, V, IV, V
I, V, I, V
I, IV, V, V

Once you figure out the 2 measures in the middle, the second set of the phrase tends to end on I...normally keeping the first three chords the same and changing the last one to I. If you go to a piano and choose one of the examples above andstart playing the notes in an arpeggiated fashion....where eachnote is played seperately and in some semblance of order, you will hear your own pop song phrase:

Eighth notes in 2/4...
(C, E, G, C), (C, E, G, C), (F, A, C, F), (G, B, D, F), (C, E, G, C), (C, E, G, C), (G, B, D, G), (C, E, G, C). Each is grouped into a measure of eighth notes....and each goes up an entire octave, and returns to the first octave when you repeat it. You'll notice I usedthe V7 chord in the 4th measure as this holds a lot of tension and gives your melody another chordal tone to use in it (^4). I also changed the third measure on the repeat...this is mostly because IV doesn't typically "like" to go to I...whereas V LOVES to.

Once you know what chords are being used...you can remember the pattern as it hardly changes...you can make up your own bass line and start fooling around with the melody that's being played. Trial and error on the key is okay, too. normally the first note is the tonic or first scale degree (^1). That normally tells you the key, but there are exceptions! If there is an anacrusis..normally it's ^5.

I hope this helps a bit, and let me know if there are more question...feel free to email/open a new thread concerning this topic.

-Dennis

Those are GREAT examples, I especially liked the Star Wars and Take On Me examples. Yes, those are exactly a 5th and a 7th interval! Again, wonderful way to think (or hear it) about it. I honestly have never broken it down using a specific song. I learned them probably because my piano teacher taught me basic theory right from the beginning when I was 8 years old. I was lucky, not everyone gets a piano teacher who teaches interval training, and chords and the circle of 5ths. (If you ask me it should be required!)

I like the way you also talked about leading tones such as the V or V7 and how it leads to I. I am going to open up a new thread, and Dennis, I was hoping you could talk more about the how one chord leads to another chord and why. In this thread I may jump in and ask questions, and probably others will as well. I especially want to see this lead into various modes later, and how they work in classical and modern music. In short give us some more of those cool hear training examples if you can. Thanks again for that really cool post!

azflutist