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cathr
(5 points)
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I decided to give a try on flute playing a few months ago, and I bought a new Selmer Prelude flute, which is very cheap and not that bad... My idea was just to decide if I was going to keep on playing the flute or not. I now am able to decide that I will go on, and trying to choose a more serious flute. I have several ideas, in different scales of price.
First idea, getting a student flute, the cheapest in serious student models, and there I'm thinking of Pearl 505 flute :
http://www.thomann.de/fr/pearl_pf505_re_preferred_floete.htm
Second idea, a little bit more elaborate student flute, I thought about the Yamaha YFL 381 with silver head :
http://www.thomann.de/fr/yamaha_yfl_381_querfloete.htm
Third idea, a solid silver flute, but not a Yamaha, the Azumi az3000
http://www.thomann.de/fr/azumi_az3000_rbe_querfloete.htm
Here in France, everyone buys a Yamaha. That's just why I'm not very enthousiastic about this brand, because I think (right or false) that you pay for the brand before playing for the flute.
Knowing that I'm still a beginner, but willing to keep on on flute, what would you suggest to me ?
Thank you.
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Kara
(3014 points)
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The Yamaha is probably bought most there and here in the US simply because they are the considered the best student line flutes available. In my own opinion as far as student line flutes go, they are the best. For intermediate/advanced flutes Azumi is my top favorite. I would not bother with a 300 series as it has the same CY cut headjoint on it as the 200 series, just solid silver and they play identical. You are just paying more for open holes and a solid silver headjoint which makes completely no difference. You won't hear any sound or feel difference with the Yamaha's until after the 500 series which come with the EC cut headjoint.
Yamaha's are too overpriced in my opinion as they know they are the most popular and take advantage of that.
Try them out if you can, but I still say if you want a REAL upgrade, go with the Azumi as they have a more pro style Altus headjoint that comes on them and a wonderful mechanism too. I really can't say enough about them.
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leighthesim
(322 points)
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though i don't know much i would personally go for the yammy or pearl but unless you are used to a inline g flute i'd go for this one
http://www.thomann.de/fr/yamaha_yfl271s_ii.htm
taking into account that the yammy 200 and 300 series play the same, then when you know you are definatley going to be dedicated i'd upgrade the headjoint to a better solid silver ec cut yammy
but i would go for the altus as it seems alot of money whilst you a begginner
<Added>
sorry, wouldn't got for the altus
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Spencer
(27 points)
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Try looking at the Gemeinhardt 3SHB. Maybe that will ber right for you. www.gemeinhardt.com
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Kara
(3014 points)
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I have to choose to disagree about recommending a Gemeinhardt. They truly are not much of an upgrade to a regular student if at all. They do not have a good mechanism and the headjoint on them are lacking making it harder for the student to get an efficient sound. Most teachers will agree with this.
<Added>
Leigh, have you actually played a Pearl or Yamaha to be able to recommend them?
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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This is got to be the most common line of questions on this flute forum. From time to time I offer my somewhat weak, but not untested opinion. I have played many different flutes through the years, and I have been to several Flute conventions and tried the major brands, and many unknown brands. I am not a repair person, I am a player first and foremost.
I like the Yamaha flutes for the student models at the mid-level. I am pretty close to agreement with Kara. I have never been a Gemeinhardt fan but that is not to say they make bad flutes. We are talking student to mid-level flutes here. I like the Pearl Flutes too, but get nothing below the 600 series. The cheaper Pearl flutes are not that great compared to the cheaper Yamaha flutes. (Shhhh, I said something bad about Pearl!)
The reason I like the Yamaha (300 series) flutes is the mouthpiece and the mechanisms. This is the perfect balanced flute in the 500.00 to 1000.00 price range. Most are around 500.00-700.00 unless you want all the goodies (gizmo, offset G, split E, etc), then a little more. The 400 series is really the true step up for Yamaha flutes, but the price is stepping up too, and if you are going to spend more money then at this level I chose to switch to Pearl flutes at this level. Most music stores will be selling the Yamaha Flute like the 321 solid silver for around 1000.00, but you can find it cheaper if you know where to look. Kara knows all the best places to shop, I would check with her.
Ok, If you want to buy a step up (advanced) flute, then you know I am going to recommend the Pearl Flute for the money. 1000.00 to 1500.00 price range. The 600 series Pearl Flutes meet many needs for the more advanced student. They play great. They are famous for their springless mechansisms. Others now also are using springless mechanisms, but getting a good one in this price range is hard. I also sorta like Pearl mouthpieces, but they are not that great. I still think going custom is required for any college player or above. So, tack on another 500.00-1000.00 for a custom head.
For the record I play a Pearl PF-785 Sterling Flute with Custom Head.
My advanced student flute is a sterling Armstrong M-80 circa 1980.
My piece of junk grade school flute was a silver plated Artley.
If you can find a used one like a sterling flute with great mechanisms that is really cool. Still, sterling means nothing, there are sterling flutes out there that range from junk to gem. Also, it is so dangerous to buy before you have an expert look at the flute. For a small fee most experts will gladly go over a flute for you. Sometimes several at a time even!
Ok, that is my very humble opinion only rarely offered on this site. I am waiting for all the hate mail, and you don't know jack dude, to start pouring in....
Like normal I will ignore it. hehe
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Kara
(3014 points)
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Sorry to disappoint you, but no hate mail from me. I will save that for someone that REALLY deserves it! lol! JK!
This subject does come up often and as usual some flutist answer recommending their brand of flute because that is what they play. It does get frustrating because they most likely have not tried out several different brand as you have either. I wonder how anyone could recommend something that they have never played or have only been playing for less than a year? Yet it happens over and over again...
I agree with many of your opinion except the one where you said that the 400 series Yamaha was where you step up with the Yamaha flutes. I would say it would the 500 series only because the headjoint cut changes to an EC. To me the 400 and down play all the same.
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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Ok Kara, let's thread this one out...hehe NOT!
The Yamaha 400 series is still better than the 300 series (Though the Chrysler 300 rules!). It is suppose to be a step up flute, but I agree, in fact anything below a 500 for Yamaha or 600 for Pearl is not that great...Still the Yamaha 500 series flutes probably sound as good (better? hmm?) as the Pearl 600 series. After that and maybe even before, it is all subjective. We all know that...each person has their own perspective on this.
You make a good point the 500 is probably a better classification for step-up. I just was talking on lower end student flutes, it is better than the 200 or 300 series. I played them a few times in the last 10 years. I was never able to make them sound very good. The Yamaha 400 series flute showed more promise at least on the particular specimen I tried at the National Flute Convention in 1995, 1996, and in 1999. I still prefer the Pearl for the 600 series and above. You can guess that.
Kara and AZflutist duke it out.
Kara 1 - AzFlutist 1
It's a tie!
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Micron
(1480 points)
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I agree totally with Kara, re the Yamaha 2,3,400 series being effectively the same, just rippings-off for some silver content that changes nothing.
I agree with Kara's comments re the Gemeinhardt head (or most of them)
I disagree re the mechanical aspect of Gemeinhardt. They are robust (or used to be.... I hear they are now not made in USA, so....) I find the mechanism very reliable once the pivot screws, and especially the Bb ukpper pivot, are prevented form working loose. In my experience almost no technicians attend to this basic Gemeinhardt fault. And it does not take long.
Azflutistwrote:
"The reason I like the Yamaha (300 series) flutes is the mouthpiece and the mechanisms."
But the mechanism is no different from the 200 series. And the silver in the head makes no difference to the sound (in my blindfolded experience).
"The 400 series is really the true step up for Yamaha flutes"
No. Still the same 200 with some overpriced silver that makes no difference to how it plays.
"... the Pearl Flute ... They are famous for their springless mechansisms..."
No truth in that at all. I think you mean the so-called "pinless construction". The way Pearl has done this, it really has zero advantage over the traditional pinned construction, which has been used on almost every top-of-the-range flute for many decades. It is little more than a point-of-difference sales gimmic to rave about to the gullible!
"... Others now also are using springless mechanisms, but getting a good one in this price range is hard..."
Wrong word again, so I just wonder how much of the rest of what you say repreesseents any real knowledge. True pinless construction, which does not simply repplace pins for screws as Pearl does, is still very rare, and really still has no advantage, but can be a huge amount more hassle if damaged. Forget about this pinless thing... it is no big deal!
".... Still, sterling means nothing, there are sterling flutes out there that range from junk to gem. Also, it is so dangerous to buy before you have an expert look at the flute. For a small fee most experts will gladly go over a flute for you. Sometimes several at a time even!"
Ah! I agree with all of that.
"...I am waiting for all the hate mail, and you don't know jack dude, to start pouring in...."
No hate mail, just comment.
".. Like normal I will ignore it..."
I hope you don't ignore coment if it valid.
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Kara
(3014 points)
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I should have been more specific when I did write that I thought Gemeinhardt flutes had a bad mechanism. To me the mechanism is not smooth and it pretty clunky. I mean bad is in, I don't like the key action or general feel, not bad is in that it is poorly made.
azflutist was of course just joking about the hate mail part.
<Added>
"Wrong word again, so I just wonder how much of the rest of what you say repreesseents any real knowledge."
There is no need to insult him. I take offense to that.
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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Pinless mechanism is correct (and what I meant) on the Pearl Flute. I was actually thinking pins too, but wrote springs, who knows why. I make stupid mistakes like this all the time. It's my nature. I try to be correct when I write, but sometimes we all make silly mistakes. Thank you for correcting it. You knew exactly what I meant.
See, no argument! When I mess up I admit it! 
The rest can be argued if you like, but my belief is that the 400 series Yamaha though not different in most ways as far as construction, but is still better sounding because of the silver. This is not usually the case silver does not usually make all the difference in the world, but was true in my tests. The difference was not huge, but notable. I consider it a step up for that reason. I already agreed that the 500 was probably a better candidate as a true step up.
As far as that closing comment about the accuracy of my words. You know I know my stuff, if you have seen me post, and talked to me, and you have. So, that gets my generic "WHATEVER!"
Kara, thanks for sticking up for me, but that is the nature of forums, and I reply back accordingly. I am not insulted. It is true, I made a mistake. Still, bad closing words from someone that knows at least a little about me. Micron knows what I do, how long I have played, and probably more than a little about my history. If not, read my profile it is covered to some extent there.
Thank you for letting me clarify!
Again, not mad at you Micron, you are who you are. You are correct to doubt me if you do for this reason. Still, I know my stuff, and admit I am a player first and don't work on flutes. I gave my belief from the players perspective, and I believe outside of the obvious mistake that what I said was RIGHT ON. You may believe different, I have no problem with that. I like to see someone disagree with me, then I learn something from another perspective, and that is a VERY good thing!
<Added>
It's now clear to me why I made this "mistake", because pinless = springless. It is officially called pinless mechanisms by Pearl, I called it springless. In truth Springless is also correct since by having no pins it is without springs, therefore springless. LOL!
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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Here is another thought...I wonder if somehow, Yamaha "tweeked" their 400 series flutes at the convention? Maybe they knew they were not as good and did something on these display models, and they were actually better when the actual ones you buy might not be quite as good? Is there any tweeking that could be done in this manner? It makes you wonder at least. Or am I all wrong to even think this? What about the mouthpiece, could they have made some small changes to it to make it sound better?
These are just ponderings, and nothing more. I am not accusing Yamaha of anything. They make one of the better student model flutes available, and are obviously very popular for some reason. I think they sound very good for the price.
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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Oh, and by the way, pinless means no springs...springless is therefore correct...hehe so I take it all back! I was right after all.
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atoriphile
(235 points)
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azflutist wrote:
| Oh, and by the way, pinless means no springs...springless is therefore correct...hehe so I take it all back! I was right after all. |
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If it doesn't have any springs, what makes the keys pop back up after pressing them down? I have heard of Matit flutes that use magnets instead of springs, but all other flutes I've seen (even pinless ones) use springs.
Maybe you are referring to something else (pins maybe?). Just in case, here is an explanation of springs:
http://www.fluteworld.com/index.php?action=strona&wart=13#Springs
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Account Closed
(394 points)
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Spinrgs are the little thin piece of metal coming out of the flute that are bent and retain tension by being pressed against a little bar. There is one for certain keys up and down the flute. I have known what they are for 35 years. Please.
The Pearl flute comes with springs, but they attach differently because of the pinless mechanisms. I have more than one flute, and the other flutes all attach differently to the keys than the Pearl, the hollow tubes holding the pin or pinless mechanisms are different depending whether they pinless or not. In the pinless certain ones no longer require springs in some of the locations, Or they vary slightly in location on the flute body.
So to say pinless and springless in that context is correct, but the true term that I meant to use was pinless. I knew what I meant all along, and anyone who reads or knows anything about flutes knows what I meant. I am just being drilled by some because this forum is full of know it alls that love it. This is EXACTLY why I rarely speak up. You get all these supposed know it alls that like to argue for every little thing for sport. I don't play that game. You can see what I meant all along, and you know I know what I was talking about. Stop pick on every word, and get real.
<Added>
I really do mean, stop picking on every little word everyone types too. Not just on me but on everyone who posts here. People are run off by these types of know-it-all attitudes. I am a nice guy, there is no need to be rude to me on this forum. I am correct in what I say, but make mistakes. Asking me to clarify is easy. Being rude and jabbing me is not necessary. I have picked on no one, and I make my point now. After this, your jabs will be ignored. This one time it is not because there needs to be an understanding. I am human and a nice guy. I don't call people names, run them down, or rip into them for whatever they believe in. I ask you be just as kind. Thank you!
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