We have held long discussions recently concerning the alleged relationship of sound quality and the type metal used for the HJ and body. The conclusion seems to be that the possible influencece is minimal, if any at all.
I do not want to reopen that discussion, but to my ear, the sound of wood flutes is quite different from the sound of metal flutes.
If the material used in the construction is not important (at least with metals), why is it so noticeable when it comes to wood?
Or is it just that my years get tricked when I see that the flute is made of wood?
If the material used in the construction is not important (at least with metals), why is it so noticeable when it comes to wood?
Probably for the same reason we group different metals together under the rubric metal. After all, there are different kinds of wood too.
Anyway, wood is sweeter, but metal is more brilliant and louder, and over the course of music history more brilliant and louder (especially louder) have triumphed over sweeter. Think of steel strings versus gut strings, guitar nails versus guitar flesh, the violin family versus the viols--and so on.
Scotch, I think you are a little mistaken. It is the vibrating air column that produces the sound we hear. Unlike a guitar or violin, the contribution of the vibrating body is about 1/10000 of the sound we hear, i.e. negligible.
Wooden flutes have been made that you could not tell from a metal flute. Likewise, a concrete flute even.
When a wooden flute sounds distinctly different it is because of a different design of embouchure hole, different bore shape, different shaping of tone holes, less smooth surface inside, etc, etc, not because it is timber.
People who make wooden flutes tend to be making them for people who want these different sorts of sounds, the sounds that were more common before the refinements of design of the modern flute. So they alter the design accordingly, to achieve this sound.
Visit this You Tube at about 1:39 into the vid you will see two players using wood flutes. This vid goes back to 1938 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W3Q2KpiqbU
ACtually the most unusual thing about the orchestra in that vid is not the flutes. They were probably very common. It's that it is an all female ensemble.
The primary difference in a wood flute is gnerally in the design. Where on the Boehm metal flute, the HJ is tapered and the body has a straight tube, the Hj of most wooden flutes are straight and the body is tapered to narrower at the foot joint. Boehm's designed was concerned with projection, tone, tuning and consistency of these things. Of course head joint design parameters such as hole size/shape undercut are important.
I spoke with a rep from the Abell flute company about his wooden flutes. He claimed that there are only 4 manufactures in the world making a wooden flute. Yamaha is one. He is in Ashville North Carolina and two more are in Europe.
Those you give are solid arguments. The different taper issue is probably important. Also the way that wood can be polished (inside a tapered tube) is probably very different from that attainable on a good metal tube.
I think most of us tend to regard the sound of the wood instruments as more "warm" or "sweet" and other similar concepts, that could only metaphorically be attributed to sound.
A blind test could show that the basis of these attributes are mere sound artifacts or delusions of our eyes/ear/mind... Or not.
i definitely can tell. its not because my eyes tell me otherwise either.
if were going that way, why can we tell the difference between plastic and wooden piccolos? because half of the time, they are designed the same exact way.
"i definitely can tell. its not because my eyes tell me otherwise either. "
With a blind test you can definitely tell the difference between any wooden flute and meatl flute? Really?!!! Have you not heard modern wooden flutes (or heads) that sound like modern metal flutes, because of their design.
In a blind test, experienced listeners could not even tell the difference between a wooden flute and a concrete flute.
I suggest you educate yourself with the following links:
Read further Coltman research... If it too hard for you to understand, or you are too set in your beliefs to want to find more, then just read the conclusion at the end.
IMO this issue certainly calls for a great deal of understanding of the 'human condition', before valid comments can be made. Human beings are extremely fallible in their perceptions. As I have often pointed out, we are still foold by optical illusions even when we KNOW we re being fooled.
if were going that way, why can we tell the difference between plastic and wooden piccolos? because half of the time, they are designed the same exact way. "
"if were going that way, why can we tell the difference between plastic and wooden piccolos?"
Are you not aware that most plastic piccolos have a cylindrical bore in the body, whereas most wooden ones have a reverse conical bore?
Are you not aware that there are many, many factors that are DEFINITELY known to contribute to the sound make, and that the material is actually about the most insignificant?
"... because half of the time, they are designed the same exact way."
I don't think so!!
Please supply a list of plastic and wooden piccolos which you know are definitely of exactly the same design otherwise.
I made a candid remark and sort of questions on a subject that I knew was prone to controversy.
I would like that the controversy do arise, but in a friendly tone. This is the right way we can learn and discuss about things when different approaches and opinions are known to exist.
Nothing could be farthest to my original intention as to start a fight or personal attacks. I suggest we all make special efforts to ask and reply in a courteous and friendly way. Disagreement is normal and welcome, but always in kind and nice terms.
I always consider everyone in this forum to be positive people, friends or a potential friends, unless it is clearly proved it was not true. And this has happened only in very rare occasions, that fortunately are already buried deep in the past.
There is no way that I intended my posts to be regarded as personal attack. I was addressing information presented that I think was seriously misleading to other people visiting the forum.
concrete and wood are very different than metal... i think that is not a valid comparison.
see these piccolos. bot hby the same manufacturer. and i know you guys can tell the difference. one sounds very empty (like playing in a trash can) and the other sounds bad as well, but sounds more wooden.
not all plastic piccs are cylindrical. take a look at the body of a newish plastic picc. they are the conical body you speak of. you can tell just by the look of it.
In fact, I don't see a single plastic piccolo on the Fluteworld web site that advertises a cylindrical bore. Did they used to make them without a conical bore?
Does wall thickness play a part in the difference in sounds between metal and wood?
searching...
