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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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Hi Everyone,
I have a question. It's pretty long and complicated.
I bought a beat up Gemeindhart to take apart and play with. I repadded and re corked the whole thing and adjusted the springs (they were okay. I will probably take this thing apart and replace the springs next.)and keys.
I put a leak light in the flute and adjusted the shims and key heights. Some of the keys are bent to the sides and I straightened them out as best I could. They are almost perfectly straight. There could possibly be a microsopic leak if you use a feather touch.
So here is the question. I recorked the headjoint. The poor headjoint has been beat to smithereens. There are dents everywhere. The tennon is amazingly straight and airtight when it is inserted in the flute. The lip plate has a deep gash and some small dents.
How much do dents on the lip plate affect sound? I know that I am not covering the holes perfectly on this flute with my fingers and the low D and C are sometimes hard to get out. But can the headjoint affect it that much?
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mbrowne1229
(449 points)
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if the lip plate is dented on the side that is put against the chin, youre fine (may be a bit uncomfortable but it doesnt not harm the sound). if its dented on the opposite side (the blow edge) it MAY have an impact on the sound (negatively).
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Micron
(1480 points)
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It is mainly leaks that will mess up your low notes.
Most technicians use a "feeler", either 0.001" or 0.0005" thick, to detect discrepancies in "drag", i.e. friction while pulling it out from under a very lightly closed pad.
For most technicians, this is a far more accurate way to detect and locate leaks than using a light. Leak lights are used for saxophones, where the pads are opaque.
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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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Thanks for the input guys.
I am going to keep messing with it.
The lip plate is dented on both sides and the big gash is on the opposite side that you blow. I grabbed another headjoint and stuck it on the flute and it was a lot better.
I guess there is a tiny leak on the D key. That's the note that sounds funny to me.
It is really interesting messing around with the flute.
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jose_luis
(1552 points)
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If you are not a technician and you have managed to get so far fixing such a badly battered flute, it is quite an achievement!
I had leaks in my old Gemeinhardt M3 and could fix not them (and I really tried).
I tried with the light system but it it is not easy because you see light even if the pads are tight. The difference in light the seen between a little leak and no leak is minute and I suppose one has to be experienced to note it.
As with the feeler method, I also tried this, but again, the difference in drag when the leak is small was also small for my touch. So I ended up giving it to a technician who reppaded a couple of keys for very little money and now I use it as spare flute.
A dent in the blowing edge... could it be repaired? Good question for experts here. Maybe some silver solder in the dent and then sculpting the edge as original?
It sounds it will cost more that the original flute and not a job for those without a well equipped workshop and lot of experience.
I'm curious about what experts think about this.
<Added>
light the seen = light seen
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Plekto
(305 points)
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It's usually easier to find another old Gemeinhardt with a trashed body but good headjoint. $50 I'd wager to get one.(plus some spare parts - lol)
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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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Where? Usually I see trashed headjoints like the one on this flute. I actually have it playing pretty well now. Two of the keys keep going out of adjustment, but it is playable. The headjoint is terrible.
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Micron
(1480 points)
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"A dent in the blowing edge... could it be repaired? Good question for experts here. Maybe some silver solder in the dent and then sculpting the edge as original? "
Tin/Silver (approx 95/5) solder would be vest for dilling a dent. The edge of the chimney itself is quit a bit more critical. But have we been told that this is damaged?
"I know that I am not covering the holes perfectly on this flute with my fingers and the low D and C are sometimes hard to get out."
While doing your testing, it is far better to have plugs in the holes through the keys. The pads should seal with LESS finger pressure than what is needed to seal your fingers against the key cups.
BTW,leaks can be from other causes, such as leaking body tenon, non-level tone holes, split tone hole edge, around the screws that hold pads in, porous membrane even on new pads, past the junction between the open hole pad retainers and the 'chimneys' they are forced onto, ripples in pad surfaces, (for novices especially...) pad - especially F# - punctured by a spring during assembly, binding pivots, especially G# or trills, poor soldering between embouchure hole chimney and the body, etc, etc.
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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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Thanks for the help Micron.
I think the silver soldering in that application is beyond my skill level.
I don't have any plugs that fit those holes. The ones that came in my Yamaha are too small. I have been playing the flute for about 45 minutes and now I am not having any problems with covering the holes.
I believe that the footjoint tenon is not fitting properly, but I don't have a mandrel to straighten it out. I can get the notes out, but I believe that they will be stronger and clearer if I could fix the tenon.
This is just a fun flute to mess around with and an emergency back up flute if mine is in the shop.
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jose_luis
(1552 points)
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If you suspect a leak at the foot tenon, try plumber tape on the tenon, to make it tighter and try again. Plumber tape is a white plastic material, soft thin and stretchable to some degree. In some places it is called "teflon tape"
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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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Thanks for the suggestion.
The plumbers tape will not work because the tenon is bent in such a way that it is almost too tight and there appears to be a gap on one side. It is almost microscopic. It needs to be adjusted in on one edge and out on another.
Good idea though.
Right now I am playing it while waiting for my new flute to get here.
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jose_luis
(1552 points)
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If you want to plug a possible leak on adistorted tenos temporarily, you could use some sort of neutral putty on the outside of the joint.
Probably glass putty could do, as it is based on oil and talcum. It is somewhat messy, anyhow and you will have to clean it very carefully after the test is over.
Maybe someone here could give better ideas.
Good luck
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mbrowne1229
(449 points)
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i will probably be shot and maimed for thias suggestion, but i had an old flute that had an extremely loose foot. what i did (only option at the time)... i took a drum stick (one of the marching ones) and stuck it inside the flute and pushed up to help bend the tenon.
it worked, but it was very primitive. but if youre just messing around with this beast, im sure itll work perfectly fine.
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vampav8trix
(296 points)
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I have a new question.
Are old Gemeindhardts A=440?
This is the first flute that I have ever played in tune with the headjoint pushed all the way in.
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