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Bilbo
(828 points)
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Hi Kara,
I believe that certain things are correct.
The older 581 is a very good flute (Esp for that price). It has a nice feel (IMHO) that is probably better in feel than the newer 684 which has a retail price of $4,210.00 but you can get at FW for $2,699.00. Assuming this is a 581 made before the numbering change, it has SS tube/plated keys/gold springs/CY head so it plays strong and bright. It may have been modeled after the Powell. I think that certain aspects were back then but I'm not so sure that Yamaha didn't update the scale in their copying of the tone.
This one may be a good deal if you can get it near the starting bid but it may need work as it may have the original pads. Since the one that I have has the plated keys, they are getting a bit raw on the plating.
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Kara
(2843 points)
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I have no doubt at all about the rest being correct. I know these are great flutes. I used to own one. I was just wondering about the part where they said it was modeled after a Powell. I am not interested in buying it right now, I was just curious. With the economy and gas prices and all, I am sure this one is going to go for a really good price too. Someone is going to get a bargain. Thanks for the reply Bilbo 
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Bilbo
(828 points)
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Then I would say that relative to other concepts of tone at that time, I think that back then they didn't have so many choices for top-level sounding flutes. It would be probably more modeled after the Powell sound than any of the other earlier French stuff like the Bonneville, Lott, Rieve, and even Haynes.
I think that we are talking about the peak of Galway's fame and waning popularity of Rampal.So that lineage is in their minds. Even if Rampal didn't play Powell, he sounded "big". I remember R. Wilson playing the Ibert here .....big fat sounding flute. I don't remember what brand. I don't think it was Powell but it was a strong tone.
Just my thoughts.
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suzie
(342 points)
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Here's info straight from the seller:
"The information regarding the 581 model being a Powell inspired copy by Yamaha came from a design specialist at the Yamaha Co. in Grand Rapids, MI who indicated that this was the design concept back in the 1980's when this model was introduced."
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Patrick
(1388 points)
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its all marketing, there is this guy on Ebay who sells flutes from China who supposedly worked for Haynes for awhile, he claims he sets up the flutes and makes the headjoints in the Haynes style,
It's all BS and I called him on it, Haynes knows about it as well, all marketing..
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Kara
(2843 points)
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Thanks Suzie. I did read that after I posted the topic. I didn't think to look down into the questions.
Patrick, I know who you are referring to. Have you seen his China made flute that is supposed to be a replica of a Haynes? There is just so much marketing BS on eBay that it is hard to sort out what is really the facts or truth anymore when looking on there.
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Alieannie
(659 points)
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Ya know, ebay is really getting to be a shady place these days...
Not flute related, but my husband attempted to buy me a digital camera for Mother's Day. The guys totally misrepresented what it was and we went throught this whole fiasco with paypal to get our money back. It doesn't help much with flute stuff, but I really am leaning towards amazon.com for my former ebay needs. I see more and more "junk" ads by the week in all categories on ebay. I suspect in about ten years or so there won't be an ebay as we know it.
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suzie
(342 points)
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eBay and Paypal both seem to be going down the tubes... I recently sold someone a flute, they broke a key off AND sent it to me the same day the key came off (pad cup came unsoldered) AAAAAAAND put a freakin dent in the barrel!! I was the middle-man in this transaction (sold flute for a friend) so I didn't want to open the boxed flute since person I sold said flute for wanted me to return it to the buyer because I don't have a return policy AND the buyer sent it without even asking. What if the address on the package wasn't even my address?! The man sent the flute back demanding a refund upon receiving the flute. I explained that the local shop does fabulous solder work (both soft and silver soldering) and could fix it promptly at my cost, etc. The man still persisted on a full refund, no ?s asked even though he neglected to ASK about returns and I would've gladly given him a partial refund for him to bring it somewhere locally to have the key fixed. The flute was 80+ yrs old and sometimes their work wasn't AS good back then as it should've been, etc. which I have no control over. So, I opened to box (and flute case) to repack and send the flute to this guy's friend in NY to fix the flute, I suppose, and I found this dent! http://www.foreverwoodwinds.com/conn28-0.html
I removed most of it with an expander as I don't have a mandrel and made sure it assembled fine before repacking it to mail yet again to someone in NY. I emailed the buyer and TOLD him that I packed the flute however that he'd dented the barrel and neglected to mention this to me but not to worry as it's 98% removed. He wrote back stating he knows NOTHING about the dent and to just send the flute to this person in NY. In a previous email, he stated that he put the flute together, played a scale on it and a pad cup came off at the solder joint of the arm and that he disassembled it and sent it back pronto. If the dent happened while he was playing it, the headjoint would've been dented (which it was not) and if it happened HERE I wouldn't have bothered to mention the dent at all and just fixed it!
FREAKIN MORONS!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?! On top of this, if he'd have filed a claim through Paypal, I'm willing to bet they'd have sided with him and screwed me out of $600 since I only received $100-something out of the transaction for fixing the flute for my friend.
Paypal seems to be like this nowadays... where you can receive an item, totally destroy it, file a claim/dispute AND get all of your $ back, no questions asked! SAD BUT TRUE!!
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Kara
(2843 points)
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I agree about ebay going down hill. I don't sell or buy much anymore on there because of this thus not selling flutes much anymore. The last transaction I did was I bought a crap no name piccolo to use as decoration. I also bought it for the case because it supposedly came with a wood French style case as was pictured. I received it and it was nothing as pictured. The case that came with it was a cheapo plastic case that barely stayed latched. I even called the sellers and asked them why I didn't get the correct case. They basically said, too bad. I filed a Paypal claim because the seller refused a return and Paypal still ordered in their favor. So be careful dealing on there, 90% of what I have gotten is either totally different then what is pictured or very misrepresented. It is so sad. No one seems to have a conscience anymore. It is getting to be all one big scam. Is there any honest people left anymore? People only care about one thing on there... to make their money. There are the rare sellers that of course that are good people that are not out to scam anyone. When I bought my Muramatsu EX on there is was as described to the T! It seems to be that if a person that actually PLAYS the flute and are selling one seem to be much more trustworthy. Just something I have noticed.
Notice how many flutes are referred to being like a Yamaha, Haynes or Powell when in fact they are nothing like one.
Or here is a good one...
It has open holes so it is a professional model. Or how about the famous extra B key which makes it a pro model. *Gags!*
<Added>
Suzie, that is a really bum deal. Even if you took a picture of the dent and sent it to Paypal they could still say that you did it. There is no way around that. Usually Paypal rules in the favor of the buyer. Notice that sellers can no longer give negative feedback?
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suzie
(342 points)
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I also enjoy *rolls eyes* when people have the misleading titles for their Chinese-made instruments relating to better brands. Some of that doesn't make sense though whether they are misleading or not... Someone (well, many people) will pay $150-300+/- for a NEW Asian-made flute that probably won't last for 2 months BUT they won't spend around $150 for a used instrument that's much more durable than one of those clunkers. They need a book of 'Buying Flutes on eBay for Dummies' or something! INSANE!
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Bilbo
(828 points)
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"They need a book of 'Buying Flutes on eBay for Dummies' or something!"
Well put. I think that someone posted a help page for flutes on the ebay site as to what to look for in buying flutes but I can never find it. Perhaps the Ebay people bury these things deep because they don't want to hamper the activity or scare off potential bidders.
Another comment about that older Yamaha 581 being related to the Powell. (remember that I'm writing this as an owner of one) Just because the instrument was "possibly" designed after the Powell this does not mean that it's an attempt at a Powell copy. The design part is mostly in relation to the dimensions. It's most likely lacking in materials and fit and finish. They were not handmade.
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