I was just browsing wwbw's piccolo prices for comparison and noticed that their 'Woodwind' piccolos are around $200 on avg. less than the Gemeinhardt-stamped piccolos.
Both instruments are MADE by Gemeinhardt to their (I assume) currently crappy specifications. Maybe the Brio! representative ghost member can enlighten us on this one...
Also, Giardinelli (I sometimes mix that name w/ the chocolate company: Ghirardelli! *guilty!*) is also made by Gemeinhardt.
I SUPPOSE there's a plus to the Giardinelli model, as is stated *ahem*:
'Beautiful silver plating on the nickel-silver body and keys is not only more attractive, but is less slippery than nickel for an easier grip. The underlying nickel-silver structure is very durable and rugged, designed to take the inevitable handling accidents that happen with young players. The keys stay in alignment and adjustment longer than all-silver keys.'
*******JUST KIDDING******** What kind of crap is that?!
Doesn't quite make sense to me but then again, the new Gemeinhardt products are as worthless in my opinion as Simba's line of instruments. Congratulations, Gemeinhardt, for producing lower quality instruments every year since the late 90s/2000! *throws confetti at them*
I have heard a lot of bad things about Gemeinhardt, but for some reason I play the best on them! I've tried the yamahas, the trevor james, (havent tried any of the really nice ones ie: sankyo, muramatsu, powell) and I've found Gemeinhardt to be superior to the ones I've played on. Maybe I have the one flute that is made by Gemeinhardt that is actually good?
If you have an earlier made Gemeinhardt then that may be why you like it so much. I never cared much for Gemeinhardt flutes in general, but I have got to say that the older models were more to my liking.
I don't know much about Gemeinhardt flutes as I don't sell them and have not seen too many of the. Suzie,just out of curiosity, could you tell us a little more about the older models. What I mean, is what are some of the differences between the older models to the now newer ones being made today?
I'm not Suzie, but thought you might be curious... I find the older Gemeinhardts, as in around 20+ years old, to be a bit better. Their headjoints still aren't anything to write home to Mom about, but the bodies feel a bit sturdier and seem to stay in adjustment longer. They also sound better and are easier to play than the newer ones. I just don't like the cuts on newer gemmies.
On occassion when my flute is in the shop or if I didn't bring it and needed, one of my friends has a 30 year old gemeinhardt that he lets me use (his backup). I've played maybe a dozen times on it, and that's my basic impression if you want a comparison. I've played a whole slew of gemmies of varying age, and the older they are the more I can tolerate them.
Tenorsax13: Does your flute's headjoint have a model stamped on it? My guess is that it's probably stamped with a 'J' as those seem to be the most common favorite throughout the Gemeinhardt world. If you play flutes that aren't set-up properly compared to anything set-up properly, the flutes that IS properly set-up WILL be the better flute in anyone's opinion no matter WHO made it. Proven theory. As a further example, a set-up Bundy would sound extremely better than a Yamaha that has leaks or needs to be regulated. That's just how it works, really.
Kara: I agree with you 200% on the earlier Gemeinhardt topic. In the summer of 2005, I had the opportunity to be the very first person to play on a custom-made Gemeinhardt flute that was made in the 1950s or 1960s (equivalent to a model 23SSB-- sterling EVERYTHING, closed hole, B foot, possibly gold springs and gold plated lip and interior of headjoint). This flute played better than ANY other flute I'd played prior to this point (including my handmade Pearl 975 model which was sterling as well-- pic of Pearl I had (not my pictures but was my flute): http://foreverwoodwinds.com/pearl975rbecdnyg.jpg ) including a wooden Rittershausen <3. My first flute (13 yrs ago) was a Gemeinhardt silverplated M2 C-series (serial) which we purchased at a local flea market for $150 (in 1995, mind you). Gemeinhardt flutes are excellent for resale which WAS my main point in purchasing them as you can find them for around $50-75 inc. shipping and sell them for $150-175 and they're fairly sturdy overall. With this thought put into effect, the M2's MUST be worth something if they're continuing to sell for the same amount 13 yrs later, eh?
In regards to the older models some of the differences, although minor, consist of the following: different shape of the D# and thumb B keys, thinner metal on the D# and low C# keys, longer key arms, different style bridge key style (where upper and lower section meet), slightly different crown shapes (newer ones are more domed), different stamping/engraving of the Gemeinhardt name on the barrel (on the body), different case styles, and some older Gemeinhardts have a curvy area on the underside of the G# key/touchpiece. I'm sure there are more differences that I'm leaving out but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Where models are concerned, Gemeinhardt made some of the following models (but not ALL of them!): Olds, Reynolds & S-Series. The newer Olds flutes come in a dark gray colored case and are of the 50-series style, the Reynolds flutes are usually of the M2 era (70s-80s as far as I know) and the S-Series is a well-kept secret that I wish to not disclose to you kind folks here... Just kidding! =) The S-Series flutes came in 2 styles towards the late 1990s: the standard '3' model style and the '53' model style. Both series, if I recall correctly, were stamped with the model G285 however the keys were in 2 diff. styles (3= raised open hole keys and 53= flat keys). Here is an example of the two:
3 style S-Series: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/iluvflutesnpics/instruments_i_had/CIMG2687.jpg
53 style S-Series: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/iluvflutesnpics/instruments_i_had/IMG_4047.jpg
There's more but I think that's MORE THAN ENOUGH for now. My head's going to explode!
To prevent a longer story, the vintage (better-made) models are like this:
3SS/Hand-Crafted (with a ribbon-like engraving) = sterling throughout (inc. keys) and open hole
5SS/Hand-Crafted (not sure about ribbon) = closed hole and should be same as 3SS/sterling, etc.
M1: DO NOT LOOK INTO THE M1's!!!! These models were before the M2's which were before the 2SP's. The M1's do NOT have rolled toneholes and are a TOTAL PAIN to do anything with! AVOID AVOID AVOID!!
M2: pre-2SP model of the current 2SP... unmarked headjoints (no models indicated during this time) but some headjoints are better than others, etc. M2's with serial numbers starting with #s SOMETIMES have sterling/solid silver headjoints so you can luck out =)
M2S: same as a current 2S (closed hole, solid OR STERLING tubings but not keys)
M3: open hole, same as the current 3 model (some had B foot, some had C, some had angled keys for footjoint, some had silver headjoints, etc.)-- the older ones had flatter keys and not as raised as the current model keys (I personally like the flatter keys)
M3S: same as M3 but would be equiv. to a 3S today (possibly w/ or without B foot)
Too much Gemeinhardt writing for now... Hope that helps! I have more pictures to compare but would have to find and sort them if anyone wants more. Thanks! -Suzie
Umm...wow! Suzie: I hope your fingers feel better, cause that was A LOT of writing! Anyway...
Yes, the headjoint has a J on it, it is solid silver I'm pretty sure. I love it! btw I tried a brand new Yamaha and Trevor James, both of which were correctly setup, professional, barely touched flutes(models I don't know, but I'm POSITIVE they were pro models!). I've always wanted to try one of the higher up flutes(muramatsu and such) but I never have. I love my Gemeinhardt though, and for $300 bucks used, it treats me well.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that
I have tried the S series and Reynolds. A friend of mine was a Gemeinhardt fan and collected these things. I wonder why flute manufacturers make flutes under different brand names. I know that Yamaha also was associated with Vito. It seem hat Gemeinhardt has so many of them. It kind of reminds me about all the China made flute and piccolos selling on ebay under different names. You can tell they are pretty much identical too. I think Powell should make a flute that is not stamped with a Powell logo and charge half off. lol!! Now wouldn't that be nice!
Hello and hello again. What I learned a few years ago is that your preference in a flute is mostly in the headjoint. Try your headjoint on any other flute and you'll either like it as much or better, etc. depending on the specs of the flute(s). A Gemeinhardt on a 615 Orpheo flute makes a DRAMATIC (night and day!) difference, trust me!! Personally I don't like the EC headjoint by Yamaha and if that's the one you tried I assume that'd be why you're displeased with the model you tried. Aren't TJ flutes made in China somewhere, too? There was a friend of mine selling B footjoints for about $50 if you'd like me to contact him and see if he still has any available to upgrade your 3SH.
I think Gemeinhardt, for one, chose different companies may have been to broaden their reputation. Think about it: someone may like a Gemeinhardt flute but a different model Reynolds (better Gemeinhardt, etc.) more which would boost the rep. for Reynolds. Once it were to get back to the new fans of the Reynolds that their flute was actually manuf. by Gemeinhardt, I'm willing to bet that now you've got 2 names out there in the air pertaining to the same flute (basically). Saxophones are the same way and this is mostly an older thing that has to do with 'stencil' brands. Stencil brands were done when one company produced something and another stamped it to cut costs, etc. much like, I assume, the Woodwind flutes vs. Gemeinhardt. Ridiculous to do nowadays but I suppose if it works... The Roth Reynolds and F.A. Reynolds flutes were 2 different models although both Reynolds. The F.A. Reynolds flutes (as far as I know) were made by a sep. company (not Gem.) whereas the Roth Reynolds flutes were made by Gem. and equiv. to the M1 series.
The Chinese-made flutes make you wonder. I'm sure, Kate, that you've noticed how the TJ flutes, some unknown/randomly marked flutes and Orpheo flutes have the IDENTICAL keys? Give you one guess as to why that is.
Since we're on that topic, Orpheo flutes DO have some work that needs to be done (tweaking, etc.) however, much to my surprise, the 'student' model is the complete opposite (headjoint aside!!) to the 'intermediate' model that I have here. When I was taking pictures of the Orpheo student model I decided to check the mechanism to see how poorly it was done. Guess how much slop I found in the mech... NONE! I'm not sure if they tweaked this one before they sent it but the keys don't even clank like the 615 model does. Weird... They did, however, neglect to regulate the bridge and the thumb Bb setup. *surprise-surprise* Here's a link to my review I wrote that I sent off to some ppl when I got the Orph. as I'd prefer not to post it here: http://www.foreverwoodwinds.com/o_goodness.html
I did try a few TJ flute sand they were terrible. There is some place in China with slave labor going on that the US are making a profit off of. Sad...
I loved the review about the Orpeheo flute. Very funny but honest. Now I would really like to try one of these newer student flutes. It has peaked my curiosity. Hmm.. there is one on ebay. I don't know if it would be possible for me to bid though.
Someone told me a few years back that the TJ flutes were being made at the same place as Gemeinhardt's Chinese-made parts... No clue! Fixed what you were talking about. Going to go see if Pearl headjoint will fit on Orpheo. Kind of excited just thinking about it lol! I've been wanting to try these Orph's (student models) for a while because it fascinated me that the engraving (laser or not) is fairly deep for the serial number on the rib which is usually only done like that on better quality stuff. Going to try headjoint!! WISH ME LUCK!! =)
Good luck!
I put a bid on it, but I could only put as much money as I had in my paypal account on it, so I doubt I will win it. I am sure it is worth much more. I am curious to see what it will go for.
I'm kind of curious as well. I just bought this flute from Beetly actually (from eBay) and am still shocked they accepted my offer lol. I'm not sure if they set this flute up at all or anything but my friend said he remembered liking the student models moreso vs the 'intermediate' model Orpheos, too. Wonder why they do it this way... Weird. Just made a quick crappy sound clip of Orpheo for your listening pleasure (or not!! LOL) with the Jupiter headjoint that fit it and my god did it sound fantastic with the Pearl headjoint! Only problem w/ Pearl headjoint is that it only fit on about 1/8" so it sounds decent but in a different key... Oh well! =) Maybe they should just stop producing the headjoints and sell them without them!! Here's sound clip w/ Jupiter 511 stock headjoint on it: http://www.foreverwoodwinds.com/orphclip.html
I apologize for the missed notes, etc. but it's 1am and if I play too loud the neighbors dogs will start yapping!! Plus I haven't played in over a week... Joyful! =) Hopefully these sound clips work... They may be loud since the digital cam records VERY loudly and I already tried reducing the sound on both to about the same... Ciao!
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