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tenorsax13
(522 points)
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Um...I heard in another topic that inline keys cause problems later in life?? I have a Gemeinhardt 3SH thats inline so if I keep playing it does that mean I'll be feeling pain in the next few years? Does offset get rid of this problem?
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Kevalenoxx
(34 points)
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Ive been playing inline for 3 years and i have no problem with my fingers...people with shorter fingers prefer offset keys then people with long fingers
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Alieannie
(719 points)
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Correct posture and stance is more important than anything else. You can play an offset g and still experience issues later; an inline won't solve all your problems. And it can be expensive to sell a flute to buy another flute to have an offset g.
Make sure you are playing with good posture, ask your teacher to scrutinize you. If you are concerned, simply plug your g hole. Over time you may find you'll play more on the rim of the g key, simulating the finger position of an offset g.
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theneonghost
(5 points)
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I've been playing an inline flute since 99' and I have had no injuries so far. Like already said plugging the G can be useful for a while. Or on the odd occasion plug it depends on how long you are going to be practising and how you are feeling - tired fingers ectera..
Its just a case of managing how you play, you shouldn't get any injuries.
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tenorsax13
(522 points)
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I take lessons and my teacher says my posture is fine, and I don't have trouble covering the G hole, I just don't want some tunnel thing in my hands/arms/wherever it is!!! plus the plugs I have are really crappy. 
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Micron
(1356 points)
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I wonder if the problems arise from playing with the wrist twisted sideways in order to get the finger to cover G. Try doing this to an extreme and feel the wrist pain!
This happens a lot less if the flute is rotated (with the player's head) horizontally toward the left shoulder, by twisting the neck.
Unfortunately this can cause neck problems (but maybe reduce right shoulder problems)
Which is all why I prefer off-set. I also have the luxury of closed hole, so I can put my finger wherever I like on the G key. :-)
In-line is mechanically quite inferior. So is it worth it, for the fashion statement? A bit like stiletto heels really. :-)
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tenorsax13
(522 points)
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I've tried playing my friends offset Yamaha, but I hated how the offset key feels! It just seems uncomfortable. And have to say, open holes are one of the best features of a flute. I love playing the quarter-tones and for some reason the low notes sound better.
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Tibbiecow
(293 points)
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"For some reason the low notes sound better."
I really, really doubt that the open holes make the low notes sound better. The lowest notes have all of the open-hole keys closed, until you get up past an Eb.
Quite likely a better headjoint design makes the low notes sound better.
You will probably be fine with your inline G. You can plug that particular hole, and also get a Bo-pep to make the left hand grip essentially larger. What is most important, is that you will have achiness and possibly tingling in your hand well before you do enough damage to have carpal tunnel syndrome. If you practice a LOT (like 3 or 4 hours a day) and your hand is getting achy, you would need to change your flute setup. But don't worry about it if your hand doesn't hurt when you play for really long stretches.
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Alieannie
(719 points)
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I'm not sure what plugs you have, but you might want to check out silicone plugs if you haven't already. I got mine from fluteworld for less than $5 and they're great!
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Bilbo
(839 points)
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"In-line is mechanically quite inferior. So is it worth it, for the fashion statement? A bit like stiletto heels really. :-)"
Please understand that I'm not advocating one over the other. One issue with the inline G is that it may be slightly less supported in the mechanics but that if the player closes the keys properly it isn't an issue and it could be that a tad lighter key work or a tad simpler may be good thing.
I've been playing inlines for about 30 years and (knock on wood) no carpal tunnel as yet. Some days up to 8 hours of practicing that has been generally technical stuff.
One issue with off-set G is that if a person thinks that it is easier to cover the G hole (Which is marginally offset by a very small distance....) they will not bother to reach that pinky finger to that G key very well. This will cause them to actually not cover the hole effectively even though they have bought this flute for that purpose. I have seen this in action.
The other more serious issue is that with off-set G flutes people will tend to have their wrist and the back of their hand more inline with their forearm. This causes,
1)A tendency to push the flute up against their chin or mistakenly their bottom lip too hard.
2)A decrease in technical coordination because their flute support mechanism becomes confused with their finger action and this causes an increase in tension.
If the L.H. is more underneath the tube slightly, the fingers are freed up to perform the correct function of opening and closing the keys without undue stress.
~bilbo
N.E. Ohio
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Micron
(1356 points)
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"Please understand that I'm not advocating one over the other."
Not at all. I was just presenting my own independent thoughts.
"...One issue with the inline G is that it may be slightly less supported in the mechanics but that if the player closes the keys properly it isn't an issue..."
I see it as a bit more than that. There is a trend for firmer pads, and towards playing with very light finger pressure. These require a very high precision of adjustment, and hence stability in the mechanism. 0.0002" becomes quite significant. This in turn demands rigidity in the mechanism.
Having the G keys mounted on the Bb key's pivot rod makes that whole assembly significantly more flexible, easily to a degree of 0.0002" hence non-rigid.
And in-line-G, in combination with two separate G key pivot tubes, as is the case with split E, can actually cause the Bb key to jam slightly when the G key is pressed. For example the Bb key may remain closed when playing from third octave F to F# or B. I once came across a top Miyazawa model with this problem. I could do nothing with it. I got the owner to get it sent back to Miyazawa, who also failed to deal with the problem (and sent it back to the owner!!)
"... and it could be that .... a tad simpler may be good thing..."
It is the off-set mechanism that is simpler. G is entirely mechanically independent of A and Bb.
"... it could be that a tad lighter key work... may be good thing..."
IMO that is rather desperate for a rationalisation.
"... One issue with off-set G is that if a person thinks that it is easier to cover the G hole ..they will not bother to reach that pinky finger to that G key very well...."
&
"... The other more serious issue is that with off-set G flutes people will tend to have their wrist and the back of their hand more inline with their forearm. This causes,
1)A tendency to push the flute up against their chin or mistakenly their bottom lip too hard..."
Really! IMO that is really desperately clutching at straws for a rationalisation.
However, all opinion. Each to his own. No worries.
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Bilbo
(839 points)
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Actually Micron, I am very serious and dedicated to my technique and not "clutching at straws".
One issue with having an off-set hand position (Not speaking of the keys but the hands and fingers here) is that this WILL deflect the mechanism off it's pivot line and cause undue wear on the mechanism in time (similar to having an unbalanced crank shaft on an engine) as well as wasted energy of off-line finger motion. This is a primary issue that many can have with inline mechanisms with respect to the G.
<Added>
"0.0002" becomes quite significant."
Seriously? So if a mechanism is that tight, there just about isn't room for any oil. I seriously wonder how many old student line flutes are generally repaired to that sort of tolerances in the L/R setup of the action.
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Micron
(1356 points)
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""0.0002" becomes quite significant."
Seriously? So if a mechanism is that tight, there just about isn't room for any oil."
Yes indeed.
On a top flute or oboe, low viscosity oil must be used, or the action will be very sluggish. Clarinets and saxes are typically made with sloppier pivots, which I suppose is reflected in their cheaper price for pro instruments.
A feeler that is 0.02 mm thick is the standard for detecting leaks under flute pads. That is .0008". Some technicians use half that thickness, 0.0004".
Now when this is dragged from under a lightly closed pad, most of the time it is used to compare the drag in one location with the drag in another location.
Any place where that feeler was not gripped at all (i.e. no drag at all) while it was being pulled out, i.e. 0.0004" - 0.0008" depending on the feeler, would constitute quite a significant leak. Therefore IMO it is reasonable to assume that a good technician is aiming for an accuracy something like 0.0002".
Another test: Flutes are usually adjusted more accurately than a saxophone, partly because the sax player is used to pushing a fair bit harder to fight springs that are a lot stronger. Yet...
Leaks under sax pads are usually detected by observing light leaking from a source placed inside the sax. Now if I get a well adjusted pad - no light showing - and then close the pad on my 0.008" translucent feeler. Then the thickness of light shining through is what I would say represents a significant leak.
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Bilbo
(839 points)
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"Having the G keys mounted on the Bb key's pivot rod makes that whole assembly significantly more flexible, easily to a degree of 0.0002" hence non-rigid."
The issue that we are discussing centers around the 3rd finger G key and the 2nf finger A keys. So my point is that there is a slight difference in the mechanism in this regards but that if the player closes the keys properly it really isn't going to be an issue. With the off-set G it would be more important for this increased rigidity because there is a tendency for a fair number of players who "need" this setup to cover the holes to play in a way that they are inadvertently deflecting those keys. So for them, the off-set G is an advantage because they gain a sense of security in covering the holes as well as having a more robust mechanism that in spite of the strong possibility of a less efficient hand position, will maintain it's alignment for a longer period of time.
I grew up on the standard closed hole offset G through public school and didn't have a problem with it but now after many years of playing in line I definitely feel uncomfortable playing off set G flutes. The balance with them isn't correct for me any more.
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MT_Mind
(23 points)
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...and I bet the poor soul who originally posed the question is more confused than ever now.
Well, the main thing is really not to worry about playing inline unless it hurts, and if it does, get help- do NOT ignore pain.
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