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JOhnlovemusic
(453 points)
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I thought all the Yamahas were being made at A444 unless you made a special request for something else. -But I don't really know, I just heard, I have no facts yet.
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Canadian
(732 points)
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| I always wondered, is the Yamaha 684H flute built at A=400, A=442, or A=444? |
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I think you mean A=440, not 400 xD!
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Micron
(1480 points)
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It's all pretty arbitrary.
For example, if they are A=440, then what are the specs for the other factors that affect pitch. They are never given:
- How far the head is pulled out
- Airstream speed
- Shading (covering) of the embouchure hole
- Ambient air temperature
- Proportion of carbon dioxide in the player's breath
- Volume
- The player's embouchure in general.
So don't worry about it too much! Just practice playing in tune.
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JOhnlovemusic
(453 points)
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I am going to disagree with "not worrying about the pitch the instrument is built in". You should know about the pitch the instrument is built with.
Based on the type of playing you will be doing it is important to know. Yes, embouchre, technique, air stream, all play a part in tuning. However, there are numerous articles and sotries of flute players playing in a respectable orchestra with an A440 flute and not being able to play soft passages by the end of the piece; usually associated with the strings having gone too high.
A440 is a relatively new pitch for the United States. We were probably using it before most of you reading this were born, but still A438 was around for a long long time. Many orchestras tune to A440+. They do this to sound brighter. I even know groups (professional) who tune bass instruments to A440, tenor instruments to A441, and soprano instruments to A442. And yes you can do this and still not sound out of tune (but it is long and complicated to explain).Most orchestras do go sharp as the concert evening goes on. And there is talk about moving the standard pitch up. Most of Europe is playing the higher A pitch. I have even had to have one of my instruments cut shorter to be able to match pitch (It was built at A438).
So the more you know about your instrument the better decision you can make. I wouldn't worry about playing an A440 in the San Francisco Orchestra, but I would worry about playing an A440 in Cinncinati Symphony. If you are playing in a band and band only, not so much to worry about, nut in an orchestra it is probably more important. (And if you plan on going overseas to play it is absolutely important).
That is how I see it.
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Micron
(1480 points)
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I would think that if you were making an issue of it today, the issue is between 440 and 444 (and 442 between), not 438!
Do you know how much change in pulling out the head corresponds to 2 hertz for a few-fingers-on note and a many-fingers-on-note?
Do current flute makers specify their pitch with the head significantly further pulled out than that?
The design pitch makes for different scaling if we play to a different pitch.
But how does that compare with the different scaling produced when playing in a colder environment, when the air in the lower half of the flute is significantly colder than the air in the upper half? (equivalent to playing on a violin string which is more dense at one end than the other!)
You are making a big issue of 2 Hertz. Most of my playing has been in a pit. How many stage lights are on, and whether the stage door is open or not, or whether fog is rolling off the stage, alter the air temperature, hence the tuning by far more than 2 Hz. Surely any half-decent player must learn to easily accommodate with 2 Hz issues. And when playing in amateur shows, a player must deviate far more than 2 Hz to keep in tune with other instruments which are "out of tune" at times, eg the brass towards the end of a demanding show.
I would be interested in whether your post comes from an academic perspective, or whether are you a player with a lot of personal experience in playing at different pitches.
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JOhnlovemusic
(453 points)
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Micron,
Good questions. I am not a flute player (nor do I play one on TV), but I know flute players and talk with them and play with them.
I only brought up the A=438 to show how things have changed. When you talk about 2Hz though we really have to assume it could be 4Hz I think, just in case 2 players are at the extremes of their tuning.
I do not know how much change in pulling out the head corresponds to 2 hertz for a few-fingers-on note and a many-fingers-on-note. and I do not think current flute makers specify their pitch with the head significantly further pulled out.
True, the design pitch makes for different scaling if we play to a different pitch. Which is why it is important we know where and how we will be playing.
"But how does that compare with the different scaling produced when playing in a colder environment, when the air in the lower half of the flute is significantly colder than the air in the upper half? (equivalent to playing on a violin string which is more dense at one end than the other!)"
EXCELLENT POINT !!!!
Since you are insterested I would say much of my perspective is from playing in different groups. I have quite a bit of pit expereince (which I normally don't find issues with), quite a bit of Orchestra where I do see tuning too high and creeping too high afterwards. A little studio work, where I find almost everything is A=440, and when I help with community groups -yes the tuning is all over the place; very little overseas playing.
That being said, I do like to research different ideas I come across and I have a fair number of freinds out in the performing world and in the academic world. Sometimes those two worlds are completely different. So what sprouts from my mouth is probably a healthy combination of what I feel to be fairly true based on my observations and my personal thesis.
Hope this helps all.
John
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Patrick
(1515 points)
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a great deal has to do with the timbre as well, I am used to the darker more velvety Boston sound and, when I worked in europe for a few years, really had to struggle to play at 442-444, even if I could get those notes on the dial, the dark nature of my flute always made things sound low compared to the brighter european instruments around me..
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