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theflutist94
(44 points)
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I once found an eBay auction saying that the Vito piccolo they were selling is equivalent to a Yamaha YPC 32...is that true? Anyone have anymore info about this?
Thanks.
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theflutist94
(44 points)
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Awesome! Thank you 
Is there any other brands I should look out for that are clones of Yamaha? =]
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theflutist94
(44 points)
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I need some opinions of which is better; an all metal Armstrong piccolo, or a metal and plastic Vito piccolo that's a clone of the YPC 32? Which one is higher in quality?
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leighthesim
(322 points)
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well yamaha have a reputation of making better instruments so a yamaha clone should have the same clone, so i'd go for the vito.
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Alieannie
(841 points)
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If Vito is a subdivision of Leblanc, then how are these Yamaha clones? Just curious.
Leblanc specializes in clarinets, so I'm not sure how well their lower end Vito models might compare. Logicaly to me, it would be like buying a Buffet flute...
I'm not saying it's garbage, as I've never played one, but I would be a little cautious to say it's a yamaha clone without seeing literature. Try it and see if you like it, but buyer beware. I hope it works out for you.
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suzie
(472 points)
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Leblanc and Vito clarinets are different than the flutes marked with the same names. Yamaha's YPC-32 is the same as the Vito piccolo however I believe that the Vito piccolo is actually the same as the YPC-31 (different shapes of the G# key) but essentially the same. The YPC-31 is the older model of the YPC-32 but supposed to be better in regards to craftsmanship. The Leblanc & Vito flutes ARE made by Yamaha and the shapes of the G# keys will help you choose between an older Vito/Yamaha (ex. 2-digit model: 21, 22, 28, etc.) vs the newer 3-digit models. Yamaha's metal piccolos are made by Armstrong (YPC-30) as is noticeable by the massively-large G# key. Armstrong's newer piccolos (late 90s-now) with the large G# keys would be EQUIVALENT to the metal Yamaha's. Hope that helps! -Suzie
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theflutist94
(44 points)
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Ooooh! I never knew that Armstrong is affiliated with Yamaha too...very interesting! Thank you
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Alieannie
(841 points)
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I still don't understand how if they look the same, how does that mean they are equivilent? There are so many more factors that go into quality than just the asthetics of it.
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suzie
(472 points)
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Armstrong piccolos (metal piccolos) are the SAME EXACT PICCOLO as the ones with the Yamaha YPC-30 logo on them. Armstrong is the ONLY company that makes the massively large G# key and, as you'll see, the Yamaha-stamped piccolo is identical. Armstrong metal piccolo with large G# IS a YPC-30 just with different name stamped and added price tag. The same applies to the Vito flutes and piccolos vs. Yamaha.
In regards to Vito, I can say the following: Leblanc is known to be running Vito and now Leblanc (and the other Indiana companies - Selmer, etc.) is owned by Steinway/Conn-Selmer last I heard (it WAS UMI but now I think it's still Steinway). So... In regards to flutes the other rules pertaining to Vito and Leblanc, etc. don't apply whatsoever. By rules I'm referring to who made what, etc. Yes Armstrong's METAL piccolos and METAL piccolos ONLY ARE Yamaha's YPC-30 (THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO THE OLDER MODEL - I forget the model #) in EVERY single aspect because they're made in the same building in Elkhart!
Vito in general is affiliated with the following (in no particular order): Noblet, Normandy, Leblanc & Yamaha.
In the flute world Noblet flutes were made of both student (drawn-rolled toneholes) AND professional (soldered toneholes) quality retaining the French (Paris!) quality that many folks prefer today. Quite unfortunately Noblet's flutes are no longer being produced and it's a hop, skip and a jump trying to get a hold of someone at the C-S company to track down information regarding particular models, etc. These flutes came in both closed and open hole models featuring a semi-offset G key.
Normandy flutes were basic interesting-looking student models with flat pad cups. Quite unfortunately these flutes were only finished with nickel plating which is quite unsightly and depreciates the value. These were closed hole models only.
Leblanc flutes of long ago featured pointed key arms (clarinet-style = long points not short points like we see today) and a variety of materials used. I've only seen one Leblanc that a friend had and it was sterling silver from 'long ago' a.k.a. vintage/antique era. The NEW Leblanc flutes however appear to be equivalent to the 50-series made by Gemeinhardt - WTF?! Don't you just LOVE incorporating different things to add to the previous confusion?!
Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Leblanc-SILVER-HEAD-Open-hole-Flute-W-B_W0QQitemZ310076899222QQihZ021QQcategoryZ10183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
As much as I know about Gemeinhardt I can tell you that all of those photos are of a Gemeinhardt-made flute although the barrel's stamp is different (logo).
Last but not least is Vito... The models of the Vito flutes, as previously stated, mostly depend on the shape of the G# key to identify quickly between models. As an example I have a few reference links to share...
Vito (older Yamaha model equivalent to a YFL-22):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/foreverwoodwinds/vito/CIMG8651_2.jpg?t=1219839607
vs. a YFL-21 (211):
http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/06/1a/b51d_1.JPG
The shapes of the G# key are identical in every way. Every company makes their keys different styles and shapes which helps you differentiate between who made what, what the model is, etc. and can be QUITE helpful at times. Different companies have different barrel styles as well (barrel = where the logo is stamped) which can be quite interesting. If you want more information pertaining to who made what (a.k.a. 'stencil' brand - where one company made something and another stamps it with their logo, etc.), let me know and I'll see if I can clarify more. Hope that helps!
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Alieannie
(841 points)
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Ann,
Thanks for the email! In the past Yamaha had a business relationship with Vito & LeBlanc where we provided parts and they assembled their instruments from those parts. This isn't currently something we do anymore.
Where it is true that these are Yamaha made parts, they aren't Yamaha instruments. One comparison I might make is if I were to buy parts from Ford, assemble them in my garage, and call it a Ford car - would this really be a Ford car?
Hope this helps! Let me know if you've got any further questions.
Thanks,
Brian Petterson
Product Specialist, Winds
Band and Orchestra Division
Yamaha Corporation of America
bpetterson@yamaha.com
Before you posted your reply, I contacted Yamaha because I was curious about this whole phenomenon. So it seems that Yamaha supplies the parts, but Vitos, etc. are assembled elsewhere. That would be why the g# keys look the same.
So it seems they are not assembled at the Yamaha factory, and it can be argued that just because Yamaha supplies the parts, it does not automatically mean they are the same quality as what goes on Yamaha piccolos. Perhaps they get the duds? Those have to go somewhere. And it also means that just because they use their parts, it does not mean they are assembled with the same specifications and exactness they would receive at the Yamaha factory.
My only point is, I think it's difficult to say that yes, the vito, armstrong,etc. piccolos ARE , or are essentially, yamaha piccs. It's too much of a stretch.
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Alieannie
(841 points)
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Ok, the nerd in me is coming out, but do you have a photo collection of the changes of the logo engravings over the years on flutes? Have a majority of the companies changed their logo engravings over time?
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suzie
(472 points)
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According to your research it sounds like most of the Yamaha's I've heard of... In particular the flutes with serial numbers ending in an 'A' to show that it was assembled in the USA but made in Japan, yadda yadda. I don't know too much about Yamaha as I just started getting into their flutes over the last year and a half now so I couldn't tell you much regarding their logos but I believe they used to have 'Nippon Gakki' in the logo and not anymore? *shrug*
In comparison this reminds me of a story when I first acquired an 'S-Series' flute in 2003. It was Gemeinhardt 100% but when I called Gemeinhardt to ask them they stated that they'd never heard of S-Series...
Also, regarding Yamaha's piccolo - they never said anything about why their metal YPC-30's are Armstrong piccolos... In my mind, a stretch would be taking Gemeinhardt keys and sticking them on a Muramatsu tube which would NOT work. Essentially the comparison (I don't know why this is sticking in my head at the moment) between having car parts by Ford, taking them and assembling them yourself has different variables... If you worked for Ford previously and fully assembled the car then YES, as far as I'm concerned, it may as well have been made in a shop with other members of the Ford assembly staff as the parts are the same and if properly done it's basically the same. Regarding the "parts" that Yamaha "supplies": there's no way you can take parts from one flute and put it on a different flute and expect it to match up perfectly without it being the same exace flute parts. Japanese flutes have different scales (measurements between toneholes, etc.) and from how it seems I'd guess that Yamaha supplies the tubings, keys, etc. and Vito/Leblanc puts their barrel on (or not!) and sells it for 1/3 the price... As I'd mentioned in my short rant on Leblanc (in the little paragraph), it appears as though they're now being produced by Gemeinhardt as they're identical to the 50-series (whatever happened to the Brio! rep?!).
It does, however, sound to me identical to the setup Yamaha has pertaining to the flute models with serial numbers ending in 'A' where they're "assembled" in the USA but still MADE in Japan. How would that be so different if everyone knows what they're doing? Sounds the same to me but, then again, I AM a flute player =) Maybe I should email them and ask in-depth and see what they come up with. I'm curious about how they'd compare this mere concept with the Yamaha-stamped assembled-in-USA flutes vs. the previously-made Vito-stamped assembled-in-USA flutes... *scratches head* I think I'm missing something here... If I email them I'll post the response so we can keep investigating lol! =) -Suzie
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