Telemann Help
 

Telemann Help

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Telemann Help    11:37 on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

Sorry, recently I keep bothering you guys, it's becoz I have 4 competitions in 2 weeks, but my flute teacher's family has been sick with flu and fever, lessons cancelled, and I had not enough lessons in recent months, I am on my own now. I have already lost one competition yesterday, I need to win the coming competition very much, otherwise I will lose a lot of opportunity of my flute life.

Here is the Telemann Flute Sonata in C Major, I must win this in 4 days time.

Cantabile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi2kxqYEvnc
Allegro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRFeDdwq0YA
Grave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTsWUu-Tt8
Vivace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7ryXBwgL3w

- Do you think my Allegro is too slow? What is the appropriate tempo for Allegro of Telemann? I think I should slow down so that Vivace is faster than allegro. right?
- Do you think my Vivace is too slow?
- Is my articulation unclean?
- Is the Vivace interpretation correct? I had not enough instructions from teacher, it is mostly my own interpretation now.
- Does this sound like Telemann? Should I use darker tone?
- Should I use vibrao on Telemann? More or lesser?

Thanks

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Re: Telemann Help    13:58 on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

vampav8trix
(445 points)

Hi.
You are moving along pretty fast.

I can't really tell you how to play the music. I am still learning myself but it seems to me that you need to put more feeling and emotion in your playing. It sounds to me like you are just playing notes. It is not just your Telemann. I have watched your other videos and I see the same thing. I wish I could play some of the stuff that you can play but I am old and my fingers and tongue just don't move that fast.

Watch this.

http://www.thegalwaynetwork-video.com/videopage.htm

Click on:

Music and the Art of Storytelling.

It's wonderful to watch.

All music tells a story and you have to tell the story to your audience.

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Re: Telemann Help    15:26 on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

musicman_944
(255 points)

I'll agree with vampav8trix. Technically, everything is fine - Right notes (except the oops), good intonation, good rhythm. What could be improved is the phrasing. Music is not simply a linear line of notes. The phrasing is key to making those notes musical, otherwise we might as well listen to our computer playing a midi file.

My suggestion is to listen to some classical vocal music. Hear how vocalists impart their inner self into the music. The same should be true for the flute. Don't just play the notes, sing them, feel them! The phrases should have a feeling of rising and falling. This is especially true in the Cantabile and Grave movements.

IMO, tempos are flexible. Yes, allegro is fast and vivace is faster, but as long as the tempos are relative, the exact BPM is not that crucial. Here again, people are not machines and unless you impart the human factor, it's just notes. Make the music say something about how YOU feel about it - that's called interpretation and is subjective, so make the music yours.

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Re: Telemann Help    00:40 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

Thank you vampav8trix and musicman!! I feel much confident now with your words, and your tips. Yes, I should shape the line more clearly, and someone from Galway Flute Chat just now told me to have stronger rhythm sense in movement 1. Thank you so much!!!

About Galway's video teaching that little girl about story telling in her flute playing, you are right! and arghh, she's so talented, I lost to her 3 years ago, and again I lost to her 2 days ago, Galway teaches her one week every year! I hate myself for not become serious in flute earlier. I'll catch up.

<Added>

musicman_944, you're so right, listen back my own recording, I really need to give more expression on cantabile and grave. I was so afraid to turn it into a romantic piece lol.

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Re: Telemann Help    04:30 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Kanea
(11 points)

I agree with what has already been said about phrasing and not playing the pieces as strings of notes. I think you have quite good technique, which is good - you have more time to spend on expressivity instead of trying to get the notes right and in the correct tempo.

I remember that once when I had to learn to play a piece of music (a short and simple piece), my teacher told me to add some phrasing - I had to do a crescendo for three bars, one bar of diminuendo, then repeat. The dynamics were not actually written down, but they did give more life to the music, although it took some time for me to understand that it really worked - truly understand in the sense of "I hear it, it does sound better" instead of "I have to do this because that's what the teacher says". Another piece of advice was to exaggerate - piano should be played very quietly, forte very loudly etc. This might be a matter of taste (how much is too much), but I have found that this approach is very helpful when memorizing pieces; if I "exaggerate" while memorizing them, adding dynamics and articulation becomes automatic when I actually have to play the pieces, so that I don't have to think "Oh, now there's that piano part".

And interpreting pieces your way is good; of course, you might need some help from your teacher at the beginning so as not to make some mistakes, but developing your own way of interpreting pieces is beneficial; after all, I think it's better for a flutist to have an individual style so that they stand out instead of being just another flute-playing person (and there are quite a lot of them ...)

So, good luck with your practicing and the competitions!



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Re: Telemann Help    06:58 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

"- Is the Vivace interpretation correct? I had not enough instructions from teacher, it is mostly my own interpretation now."

This could be a serious problem. I think you need to increase the expressiveness of the whole piece, but this is more evident in the slower parts than in the Vivace and so it could be for the Jury.

I have a suggestion, but maybe you will not like it:

Take inspiration (but not copy) what flute Masters have done with this piece. I checked in my CDs but unfortunately I have no version of that Sonata, may be somebody here could help.

If you listen to good recorded versions and you have the choice, try to imagine what would be the playing style that would most fit your specific Jury.

If in doubt, I would choose versions by modern Masters, such as E. Pahud, he recorded the Flute Concertos but I believe not the sonatas. If on the older masters, maybe Nicolet better than Rampal, but again I believe he did not record the sonates.

These are general ideas and you are very short of time.

Can you not get help locally a professional soloist or other good teacher? Otherwise, contact directly and urgently all your musician friends to get suggestions and corrections, But without teacher you will have to decide on your own in case you receive contradictory opinion (which is often the case).

Also, call now your teacher on the phone, explain her how important and urgent this is for you and have her listen to your Youtubes directly and try to have a couple of lessons and work on expression; even by telephone could do, if you cannot do this online with her.

Don't be afraid of asking her to help you when you really need. I am sure she will respond accordingly. Or so she should.

The reason I am suggesting this is because I am afraid that preparing such a piece for an international competition is hard to do without the close and intense help of a knowledgeable (in the style and author) teacher.

Also, to be on the safe side, avoid using vibrato with baroque pieces. If you really feel you need to, do it very moderately. But those works were written and are often edited without much notation as slurs and adornments, because at that time the players knew how to
improvise that, according to the taste and style of the time and place.

But you should add some non-written adornments and this is hard to know unless someone explains what and where. But probably the Jury will expect this from you, so try to get help on this if you have not it clear. Again,, listening to Masters' recordings would give you a good idea of their interpretation. And it will also complicate a little the execution, no doubt.

I am PMing you a couple of addtl ideas.


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Re: Telemann Help    07:22 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

News:

I have found a version of this sonata in my collection of LPs. It is by Rampal, with harpsichord accompaniment. He plays teh allegro it horribly fast (he always did). But the slow movements are incredibly beautiful add very inspiring.

I could extract a copy (perhaps through microphone) and send you it, if you cannot get one yourself. I insist this could be mportant. I believe this an emergency and it could justify the little transgression...

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Re: Telemann Help    07:26 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

DaveandKateplus1
4

Sounds good and I agree with the others. I do hope that you have better luck with this competition You work so hard! I can only imagine how stressful it might get towards the end. As mentioned, listening to other recording by different artists is a great idea. Maybe make up a story in your mind to each piece?
I do have a question though for the others and any teachers on this board. How do you teach a student expression? I always believed it was something that came naturally or from the heart and was developed for most in time. Some right away, some later down the road.

Good luck Pyrioni!

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Re: Telemann Help    07:58 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

Kate, I can answer as a student, I humbly believe to be a sensitive one, though not very good with the instrument.

My teacher listen to my playing and then she plays her version of how it should be, according to her interpretation. Sometimes we play together and she says I follow her very closely. Then I develop my own version, but I think it is mostly based on what she showed me.

And where does her own interpretation come from? I believe that mainly from her own professors, she had several.

Anyway not easy to describe with words, I guess.

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Re: Telemann Help    08:16 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

goldenflute
(89 points)

<I do have a question though for the others and any teachers on this board. How do you teach a student expression? I always believed it was something that came naturally or from the heart and was developed for most in time. Some right away, some later down the road>

Great question! I also believe it comes from the heart. It is raw emotion that you channel into the music. As a child musician, I found myself technically accurate, but "needy" in the expressiveness of the music. A traumatic event in my life opened the doors to all that emotion. My teachers (and I!) were amazed at the difference reflected in my music. I sought solace in my music and as a result, my music "told my story" as Galway speaks about in the video.

As an adult musician now, I still find that the emotion pours forth in my music because of the trials and tribulations of my life, and my ability to channel that into the expression of my music.

Looking at many famous composers, we find that their lives were difficult ones and their music was, no doubt, influenced by that.

So I would totally agree, expression comes from the heart and is developed and enhanced down the road of life.

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Re: Telemann Help    09:10 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

DaveandKateplus1
4

Great answer Goldenflutist! I have a very hard time thinking that expression or emotion can be taught. To me, it is almost like trying to teach someone to be mad, sad or happy. You have to feel it yourself. You simply can't be taught how to feel. Just my opinion, but I am not a grand teacher either. My expression with music is different from mood to mood really.

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Re: Telemann Help    17:16 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

Thank you so so so much everyone for helping me! I'll learn from you advices and tips !!

Principal Flutist of Greek National Orchestra and Greek Radio Orchestra just made a sample video for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ZNOlxC29g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FZQeDWWqhs

So touching that many people help me a great deal

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Re: Telemann Help    17:34 on Thursday, March 11, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

vampav8trix
(445 points)

Awesome. I wish people would make a video for me when I can't play something.

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Re: Telemann Help    02:39 on Friday, March 12, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

You need to have and cultivate good friends to achieve your wish...

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Re: Telemann Help    02:49 on Friday, March 12, 2010 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

post your playing on youtube, with your real face, so people know you are a real person, then they are happy to help you

it also helps to conquer stage-fright (with first attempt or 1st take videos).

   





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