Hello to everybody,

Maybe you can advise for my little problem. I've been playing daily on the flute (miyazawa) for 10 years and now I get a reasonably correct sound. I wanted to enlarge my experience, and recently bought a bansuri - it's a North Indian bamboo transverse flute. I chose a very good one, a large one (the lowest note is an A under the low C of the classical flute) and the sound is excellent. The mouth piece and inner diameter are much larger than the classical soprano, so the lips have to work differently to get the sound - hard job at the beginning.
I started to practise for a couple of days and it worked fine... But, when I took my miyazawa to play my usual Bach and Mozart parts, my mouth practice was just completely ruined!! The sound was worse than the one I got when I was a 3 months beginner... After less than an hour it came back right. Later, I practised again the bansuri at morning time, then the classical in the evening... sound ruined again, half and hour or so to recover a pure sound.
So, do you think that this kind of "infidelity" to my miyasawa will worsen if I go on this way, or, on the contrary, will the lips muscles, time after time, get accustomed to those regular changes and learn the skill to adjust quickly? What is your experience, for those of you who practise several kind of transverse flute, maybe mixing classical and traditional instruments, or practicing western piccolo, soprano, alto altogether?
If I've to choose, I'll stop definitely the bansuri practice. I'll be very sad of that, this sonority has a kind of magic, much more than other bamboo transverse flute from other parts of the world I tried... but I wont sacrify my 10 years classical background, of course.

Thanks very much. Sorry for my clumpsy English - not mothertongue.
Roland

I can appreciate your disappointment. I recently purchased an alto flute, also falling in love with the sound. I was told the embouchure for the alto should be slightly relaxed. I had no problem getting a nice sound and was very pleased. But, when I returned to my C flute, my first sounds were less than what they should have been.

I had hoped that playing alto flute, since it is larger and takes more air, would help me in terms of developing a greater air volume for my C flute (sustaining notes even longer than I can now). I still believe that will happen. But right now, I'm not going to panic. And you shouldn't either. Its a new instrument and even though we can just pick it up and make a fairly decent sound, there is a different embouchure and, with time, I think (hope!) we'll both be able to go back and forth between instruments and our "muscle memory" will be better able to compensate for the change.

Good luck to you!

Both of you, please let us know how it goes. I would assume that one does get used to switching embrouchure...

It does take a bit of time to get used to switching between various instruments.

Just like playing a single instrument, the key to playing different instruments is to practice and especially practice making the switch. When first starting to do it, it takes some getting used to just as it does for a beginner learning playing their first instrument. But after a while you don't even have to think about it. It's called muscle memory and the lips and fingers do what they're supposed to do without consciously having to think about it. I've had gigs where I had to switch between flute, piccolo, soprano sax, alto sax, clarinet, tin whistle, and recorder all in the same session. When playing, I don't have to think about which embouchure or fingering to use to play a note for the instrument that I have in my hands at any given moment.

To get to that state, concentrate a few days on getting your flute embouchure back to normal. In your case, what has happened is that you have confused the muscle memory in your lips. After your flute playing is more-or-less back to normal, when you start a practice session, play flute for 15 minutes, then switch to the bansuri for 5-10 minutes, then back to the flute for another 15 minutes or so. This will help your lip muscles adjust to making the transition. After a while, increase the time on each instrument. The problem with learning to play multiple instruments is that EACH instrument requires practice time and there's only so many hours in a day.

So, bottom line is: Don't worry, you haven't broken anything; just practice on both.

O yes! I am very interested too, as I have my brand new Bansuri waiting for my left hand to heal. Right now I am not playing at all, not even the normal flute.

My Bansuri model requires great lateral fingers extension (opening the fingers to cover the holes). I do not dare do that, for the moment.

I have the same problem! I play in Band on Bb clarinet for 1 1/2 hours then i have a flute lesson! we just do some scales to get my sound back to normal! It's fine!

"So, do you think that this kind of "infidelity" to my miyasawa will worsen if I go on this way, or, on the contrary, will the lips muscles, time after time, get accustomed to those regular changes and learn the skill to adjust quickly?"

IF I may suggest something. I would explore the differences in embouchure and breath between the two instruments to formulate in your mind how these changes are happening. This exploration can cause some realizations and knowledge to combat the effects of things which you seem to allow to happen in a natural way. Or in other words, study how to respond and connect to your instrument. In this, it may be that there are certain similarities that you will find where you thought that they were different before.

I find that while it's difficult to switch between different instruments at first, it gives you greater embouchure flexibility in the long run. Alto flute, piccolo, and traverso have only helped me develop a fuller sound on modern flute. It also helps to practice both instruments in the same session, and to not neglect your tone exercises.

Hi,
Thanks so much for your advise/encouragements.
I was already suspecting that practising a kind of part-time job based on frequent switches on both flute (like your suggestion, musicman: 15' on classical, 5' on bansuri) would give a better result than a "day 1 on classical, day 2 on bansuri and so on"; you seem to confirm that. It even seems not to be a spoiling factor to the present technique, but on the contrary it should improve the embouchure flexibility (according to you TBflute...)
So I'll work this way to acquire this new switching-memory into my unfortunate neuro-muscular connexions!... and let you know in that thread how it worked in a week or 2.

@jose_luis: my best wished for your hand healing... just few advise on bansuri practice, red here and there: posts from Jeff Whittier (flute maker) on some forums are very precious. One of them I remember: never use a PVC pipe as flute case, as many people do (it doesnt breath, could get mouldy). And my 2 pences from my very short experience: don't even try to close the 6th hole as long as you're not comfortable with the first 3, then 4, then 5... do progressively, it can be really painful if we don't give to the hand time enough to acquire the flexibility - especially for you who have to recover a healthy hand- and I found the work is harder for the left hand than for the right one: if I exceed my maximum tolerance time of few seconds, I feel the tendon stretching almost until the elbow. At the very beginning, 5 secs playing, 20 secs resting was my maximal productivity! A bit better by now. The best stretching exercises i found is: hold it vertically with the finger ready on holes, bring slowly embouchure to mouth, don't blow, just try to feel if fingers are still in place, take it away to place it vertical again, doing this a couple of times, rest. I shamefully decided to use the 2 pinkies to close holes 3 and 6, not the ringfingers. The bad way, I know, but with a long bansuri, no other way for me, I'm afraid. And it seems to work not too bad after all. And something I noticed: I felt much more confortable on the bansuri after an hours' session on the classical; it relaxes and prepare gently both hands for harder job I guess. To know if a bansuri is good: it should reach easily and clearly the 3rd Dha, keeping a clear sound and correct pitch among the 3 octavas; highest notes are not more difficult than lower. Good luck!
roland

Thanks Roland for your kind advise.

But I am afraid my Bansuri will still have to wait resting for some time. I am considering taking it out of its PVC tube, though the air is very dry in my city. Usually not over 40% humidity.

My priority is now to recover enough to be able to play the normal flute and I do not see this coming fast. This one is a full resting week, but I have my next lesson on Monday. I will probably limit it in time and exercise.

I might try some specific massages next week and for the moment I continue on Ibuprofen.

I try avoid orthopaedic doctors/surgeons for the moment; they speak of surgery from the very first minute and if one looks too much scared about it, they offer local corticosteroid infiltrations as an option...

Couple of days now i'm learning the art of switching... A bit better, looks like some minutes are now enough to readjust to the next one. The pb is to recover a clear sound for the classical after bamboo practice. Not the opposite: the passage from sophistication to roots is easy! I grabbed from a decorative pot all exotic flutes I have: chinese dizi, peruvian kena, 2 transverse bamboos - origin uncertain. And I practice changing. I'm more optimistic now than before. Thanks again.

jose_luis, less 40%? that's really dry. In that circumstance I wouldn't worry. I think that only people who store it in PVC pipe just after playing -when it's still all damp inside - are really concerned.
And... cortizone, ibuprofen, surgery... doesn't sound good. Surgery in particular, very risky. Years ago, I had a left hand problem due to abuse of flamenco guitar playing (corrected by changed position, classical position with foot stool is just barbary for hand and spine). Checking at that time here and there on internet, I remember on a forum a physician advising a musician having a carpian tunnel syndrome, he said "NEVER go for surgery". Well, no comment.... I'd say (for myself if i were in the case): consider green clay. "prescription" would be: 1cm thickness min. on the aching spot and around, wrap in cloth, not plastic; keep until dry (2 hours); never reuse it twice (throw away). At least once a day; one month or more - requires lot of patience. Didn't experience myself. Google it! Anyway, I would try any alternative, including shamans and mantras, to escape from the surgeon knife!!
Again, good luck.
(oh, BTW, mantras for flute-switching, I'll think about... ;-)

Green clay... that's a new one for me. There are so many alternative-medicine options that I am truly lost. And my positivist tendency is not to believe in any of them.

I plan to contact a physiotherapist this coming week. Al least I have tried this kind of therapy in the past, though for different problems and it worked. But never for the hand.

By end of April I will spend a weekend at a SPA in northern Netherlands with fossil mineral (and very hot) water pool. It is supposed to have curative properties. I am going there for other reasons, but maybe this could help my hand to recover.

Ibuprofen is prescribed here rather easily and I believe it is not too much harmful, except for the stomach and I am taking omeprazole as a preventive measure. So far, no problem (but neither much improvement, only a little, yes).

I agree with your comment about surgery. Mine is not carpal syndrome, but a hand-palm fibres syndrome, but anyway surgery is well out of consideration.

I now believe my next lesson is not next Monday 5 but on Monday 12. If I have an additional week of rest it would be better for further improvement.


<Added>

And mantras.. no idea of how, where and what. Probably not for me in this moment. But if I get more desperate, I may try that, or Chankras , or Reike (after all, it is palm related) and who knows what.

<Added>

Sorry, Chakras

And we could also consider Mahamudra, also hands/fingers-related I think! Well, me too I'm sometimes very reluctant with soft (holistic) medecine... sometimes kind of commercial enthusiasm around that, isn't it? and its difficult to know were is honesty/efficiency and were is quackery - money pumping I'd say. But the - supposed to be- non-quackery official one, the orthodox one... is sometimes a very dangerous one -- not to mention the money pumping effect as well - difficult to find one's way in all that.

Now, to come back to more pragmatic things, this subject (sorry to wander away from this topic) - After some days practicing switching, my conclusion: yes it came quickly. I don't complain anymore about "ruining my practice". Just a few secs to adjust when I come back to the classical and that's it. Curiously, the strongest pb is on the medium register notes - the easiest to get usually. It doesn't affect the very low nor the high register (after 3rd D and up, as far as I can reach it). So far I didnt notice it improved my practice on classical (as tbflute said) but it did on another oriental bamboo flute found years ago in a fleemarket. Nice one, visually speaking, but I had never been able to get any clear sound from that. And couple of days ago, I grabbed it and began to play incredibly easily on it, and had a beautiful surprise, it's an excellent one!

I find the medium register easy to sound, but difficult to sound beautifully. As you are paying lots of attention to tone quality after switching, you are probably more aware of this difficulty.