Help on Double Tounging please!!!
 

Help on Double Tounging please!!!

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Help on Double Tounging please!!!    09:20 on Monday, April 11, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

BellaBassoon
(16 points)

To all flute players who can help
I have got up to ABRSM grade 7 without doing any double tounging and then changed flute teacher. He has recently given me 'Sonate' by Francis Poulenc to study over the Easter holidays. In the first movement there is a very difficult double tounging passage and I am finding it very hard to get my double tounging up to speed (I am playing it in a competition in 3 weeks). I really have started at the deep end with double tounging and don't think my teacher realises i have never done it before but I cant contact him till just 3 days before the competition. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how I could get it up to the standard of the rest of my playing in this short time!! Thank you very much - any advice would be much appreciated xx

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    00:36 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

As far as I can remember, you don't need to do double tonguing for ABRSM grade 7. Grade 8 yes, especially Poulenc sonata 1st movement.

But Grade 8 requirement is not high, if you can do it, even if your tone is ugly and uneven, they still give you good marks, that is why I got distinction marks for my ABRSM grade 8 when I first learned it for 1 year.

But if you are talking about competition, you need very good, light, quiet, clear and secure Double Tonguing for that passage!! I've learned double tonguing for 3 years now and still not good at it!! It's very very hard to tongue beautifully. You need years of practice, I don't think you can get it in 3 weeks time if you had never done it before!



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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    00:43 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post -1 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

this is me after learned double tonguing for 1 year and got ABRSM grade 8 distinction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHL2FyzlWIE
it's terrible as you can see after 1 year of practice

this is me after learned double tonguing for 2 years and got Trinity ATCL distinction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju1CJI_XdoY
it's still terrible as you can see after 2 years of practice

so I am telling you, it's impossible to do it right in 3 weeks!!!!

better change a new piece for your upcoming competition. Because this passage is a killer and it will kill you and take away a lot of points/marks if you sound too loud or too ugly or uneven.

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    01:01 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post -1 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

I am now Trinity LTCL distinction and taking FTCL soon (learned double tonguing for 3 years), and I still can't play this passage well, that's why I have never included Poulenc sonata into my repertoires now.

Why don't you choose something easier, I mean you are only grade 7. Many people have this misconcept that difficult pieces will get yourself winning the competition. Actually if you can play easier piece really well or perfectly, you can beat those guys playing difficult pieces ugly! Can you believe I recently lost a competition to someone who was playing grade 7/8 pieces, while I was playing LTCL piece.

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    14:57 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

BellaBassoon
(16 points)

Thank you very much for taking the time to write to me - your feedback has been very useful.
I am sorry if I confused you with saying grade 7 - it was the grade 8 piece which I meant, sorry!!
I wish i could change my piece but my teacher has already confirmed it and seems to think I'll be alright (not sure why he's so confident!!) I also do not have any pieces to change it to except one which I played last year so it isn't ideal.
I didn't make it very clear but I have done a little double-tounging before, just never in a piece which is why I am panicking so much!!! I guess I will probably manage although it may not be the highlight of the performance!!!!
Lastly I think you are absolutely AMAZING at flute!!! Hope I'll be as good as you when I'm your age but I very much doubt I'll ever be as good!!! As for your double-tounging, well I think you are very good at it. From your comments I wasn't expecting you to be half as good as you were!!
Thanks again
Bella

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    23:19 on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

I see.
Here are some online lessons on Double Tonguing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s3l_zBrJT0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3X_xI2Rto0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-dMvf-ol0

and hope your teacher can give you a quick trick on those high note double tonguing in Poulenc (they are very difficult)

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    05:49 on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 3 votes

Patrick
(1743 points)

for those measures in the Poulenc, try the following:

1. play slowly

2. play slowly single tongue

3. play slurred, then slightly faster slurred

4. then try it double tongue

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    02:49 on Thursday, April 14, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

BellaBassoon
(16 points)

Thank you once more for the very helpful comments. Both the links and the advice has been great so thank you x

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    11:35 on Thursday, April 14, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post -1 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

double tonguing has always been my nightmare, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98EiesWrdRg

thanks Patrick for your advice, will try real slow and slurred first.

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    18:47 on Friday, April 15, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

egretboy
(173 points)

Here is a tonguing exercise that work wonders:

Tu Tu Tu
Ku Ku Ku
Kutukutuku
Tukutukutu

(assuming that Tu is regular tongue, ku is double tongue

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    11:32 on Saturday, April 16, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post -1 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

Thanks Ergretboy, yes, if we can Ku Ku Ku or Kutu Kutu Kutu those high notes in Poulenc, then the problem is solved.

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    12:56 on Saturday, April 16, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

meisjevanfluit
(47 points)

That exercise is good(was also the one I was going to suggest).

Additionally, on other pieces, (I think it would be a little harder on Poulenc) is to slur all the notes you are double tonguing.

Also: take the piece and the double tonguing passages and do it really slowly, assigning each note to a syllable and then playing it with them. If you don't have the syllables when are playing the tonguing passage slowly, it is definitely not going to be there when you play it fast.

Double tonguing is hard. To tell you the truth, I still struggle with it, and I've been working on it for over a year now. I was taught it my freshman year of high school as "tktk" and that confused me, so I didn't really learn it till before going into college by my old flute professor who had me do it 'tu ku' (like tew q'). My current flute professor also suggested 'da ga', but with a combination of those two, I have picked it up better.

Good luck!

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    11:46 on Monday, April 18, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post -2 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

Help on my Double Tonguing please:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgZI2yNsVY0
Scherzo's low note stacc double tonguing is a nightmare. I found low note stacc double tonguing more difficult, any tricks or tips? thanks.

<Added>

my teacher said better use between TuKu and DuGu.

<Added>

my teacher said DUGU is very unclear for double tonguing.

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    08:26 on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Patrick
(1743 points)

I use mainly Du-Gu, and it is quite clear on many fast note passages, tu-ku is more clear for shorter passages of fewer notes

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Re: Help on Double Tounging please!!!    09:40 on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Pyrioni
(437 points)

I see, thanks Patrick, I'll try Du-Gu

   

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