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Sight Tranposing

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Sight Tranposing    15:00 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

MusicalPanda
(267 points)

Has anyone here actually learned how to sigh transpose? Currently I'm learning sight transposing from C to B flat and its going pretty well. Anyone got any good tips? Plus has it came into any use in band or pit orchestra? Thanks.

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Re: Sight Tranposing    16:35 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1277 points)

YES!
It comes in handy all the time. No real tips. It is something you want to start slowly and you want to do a little practice each day you can. Way better than practicing just once a week.

I have used it in a band situation where the Bassoon player didn't show up, so the director gave me the bassoon book and asked me to transpose it. I have used in in the pit also. When a singer is sick and can't get the higher notes, the conductor will say okay, everyone we are doing all of Melissa's pieces down a 3rd. Or when a stand in learned the part in a different key, then you here the conductor say, Alright on number 14, Kiss Me Kate we will be doing that one in G major instead of C major; different book.

Sometimes the books you get in the pit are in different keys. Because it was written several times for a couple different shows. So the Woodwinds wil have parts in concert A and the brass gets books in concert C. Either the brass or the woodwinds are going to have to transpose.

The last time I was offered a pit orchestra job the contractor said to me, "the principle horn player asked that I hire you to replace the previous 2nd horn. Can you transpose?" IF I couldn't I'm sure I woudln't have the job because I transpose in almost every show they do.

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Re: Sight Tranposing    18:08 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

MusicalPanda
(267 points)

Ahh, well I haven't started with thirds and stuff, but fifths should be really easy on clarinet, because when you hit the octave key the note goes up a 12th (an octave and a fifth).

Currently I'm just doing B flat to C, and I have a duet book which I'm playing 1 piece per day and transposing it, which is about 5 minutes. It's so much easier to find duets in C and C, than C and B flat, so that's why I decided to learn how to sight transpose. Gotta love those flutes and oboes

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Re: Sight Tranposing    20:54 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tia
(48 points)

I became good at transposing from flute, or from a A clarinet because I got a lot of A peices in my orchestra, also in the pit band had to do a bit, but anything bigger then that havent had to use yet, oh maybe a 3rd, but thats it so far

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Re: Sight Tranposing    22:01 on Friday, August 01, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

MusicalPanda
(267 points)

Ahh, well thanks for the reply. I might just buy an A clarinet soon and perhaps play it in band. It would be funny if I snuck it in, and played the normal clarinet part, and then my band director finally finds out =)

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Re: Sight Tranposing    09:22 on Sunday, August 03, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tia
(48 points)

One of they guys in my ochestra rented an A, we were really jealous of him, he was the only one that was able to play the peice, as the rest of us struggeled along, the conductor liked it and probably thought the rest of us should that too

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Re: Sight Tranposing    14:32 on Sunday, August 03, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

MusicalPanda
(267 points)

Was the A a professional model?

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Re: Sight Tranposing    13:47 on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Yoghurt
(2 points)

i'm trying to learn sight transposing (various intervals, but for now mainly transposing a fifth up), now my question is, what would be the most effective way to learn?

would it be:
a) visualising the notes higher on the staff

(for example: if the piece is in treble clef the easiest would probably be reading the notes as if they where in bass clef and then visualising them two steps higher. plus keeping the flats/sharps of the new key in mind)


b) learning to be very quick in adding a fifth to the notes in my head

(for example: reading a D sharp and then thinking: oh that needs to become a A sharp)


c) using the intervals between the notes

(for example: original melody goes from B to D, that means it goes up a third, so if i was playing an F sharp, next note should be a third higher which is (quick counting/much experience)a A.


i'm using method a) at the moment, but i'm not sure it's the best.

which of these methods is used by people who sight-transpose and which ones will work best eventually?

i would be very thankful if you could help me out!


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Re: Sight Tranposing    15:35 on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1277 points)

I use a combination of them all.
I read the interval difference on small steps.
When doing a half step transposition I add a sharp or a flat to everything (I ned up with some double sharps and double flats but it works better for me than thinking an actual half step).
Larger intervals I use clef transposition (tenor clef, alto clef, soprano clef, bass clef and baritone clef). Whatever works. Concert key transposition should be a no brainer (should be a no brainer but isn't always).

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Re: Sight Tranposing    06:16 on Thursday, September 04, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Yoghurt
(2 points)

Thanks you very much!! You're helping me out a lot

Two more questions if you don't mind...

You write: "Larger intervals I use clef transposition (tenor clef, alto clef, soprano clef, bass clef and baritone clef)."

What do you mean by this exactly? You mean that besides the treble and bass clef you know other clefs as well? do you think that would be useful for me to learn as well (i'm a french horn player, only used to read in treble and occasionally bass clef)?

i know learning to read another clef smoothly is not that easy, but maybe it's good to invest in it, because it's the best way to be able to do very fast and accurate sight-transposing?

second question:
you write: Concert key transposition should be a no brainer (should be a no brainer but isn't always).

What do you mean by no brainer? Do you mean that transposing to concert should be practised so well that you shouldn't have to think about it when you're doing it? (Sorry, I'm not a native speaker of English, so i am a bit confused)

Thanks a lot again!

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Re: Sight Tranposing    08:58 on Thursday, September 04, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1277 points)

Question 1 - Clefs. As a french horn player clefs can be very helpful. I was taught by my horn teacher to read in clefs. All clefs are moveable. The Bass Clef is an "F" clef. Those two dots aren't there just to look pretty. The two dots sit on either side of the line that represents F. If you move the clef down to the middle line, the middle line is now F and you are in what we call baritone clef.

It takes a while to get used to reading by clef. But a little practice each day will help. You can't learn it overnight. As a french horn player you must learn to transpose. I have a few freinds who sound pretty good but they don't like to transpose. When I go on vacation and need someone to subtitute for me in the pit or at the orchestra they don't get called - - - because they can't transpose. You must transpose as a horn player.

You can move the C clef around also, and although rarely done you can move the G clef. The treble clef is a G clef. Again, the big circle thing that goes around the second line shows you where G is.

Also learn to read bass clef. I know of an audition where they had lots and lots more horn players than they thought they would have. The auditioners didn't know what they were going to do. So one of them came up with a great idea. He took a piece of music in bass clef, made copies and then went and handed it out to the people waiting to audition. A good twenty of them left right then. Of the remianing players half of them were dismissed at the begining of the audition because they could not read the bass clef part proficiently. It saved the panel a lot of time.

Question 2 -
What do you mean by no brainer? Do you mean that transposing to concert should be practised so well that you shouldn't have to think about it when you're doing it?


YES!

Transposing from concert C should be easy for any of us. After all when the conductor asks for you to play a concert D you should immeidately know that you are going to play your written A. Because things like this are asked every day at just about every rehearsal we all should know the transposition to our own insturment from concert pitch immediatly (hence the statement "no brainer" we shouldn't have to think about it). but most of us do anyway (yes, me too sometimes).

A great way to practice transposition is to play duets with freinds who play other insturments. Have them get out their easy duets and ask them to play them with you slowly. The advantage to doing it this way is that you are more likely to play through your mistakes rather than stop for every note.

It is okay to make mistakes. Play through them. Your mind will work on them subconciously and fix them as you do this more and more often.

Another exercise you can do on your own is take your easy method books and play the exercises in a different key. A very very dear freind of mine studied at Eastman School of Music with Verne Reynolds. He has all his students play from his 48 Etudes for Horn book. These exercises look easy but are actualy difficult. Mr. Reynolds requires the students to play every exercise in every key. It's difficult at first but she is the most accurate horn player I know. She just doesn't make mistakes.




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Re: Sight Tranposing    14:41 on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

leighthesim
(471 points)

i can transpose between Bb and C by picking up my flute instead of the clarinet and vice versa (not helful i know)

but i'd just imagine everything a bit higher up (or lower down)

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Re: Sight Tranposing    04:30 on Saturday, October 04, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

stevesklar
(70 points)

After a while it becomes second nature.
Practice will make it easier

then you will realize how much cheaper it is buying piano music books to get your favorite tune then transposed Bb music

Here's a nifty little guide on transposing
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/theorytranspose.htm

I try to basically think everything up a step - a little mind trick I guess.

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Re: Sight Tranposing    02:24 on Thursday, October 09, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

paulvanross
(167 points)

YEs, it comes in handy all the time. So often you are given a pieces in concert pitch and expected to sight transpose it.

Practice doing it as often as you can.

When you play instruments in C, Bb & Eb you start getting used to transposing quite quickly.
A little interesting when you have a Bb part in front of you and play an Eb instrument!

Paul
http://www.MusicAllsorts.com
Inspiring & Educating Musician's through New Music


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Re: Sight Tranposing    20:25 on Monday, October 13, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

tmheimer
(54 points)

Owning a C clarinet can help in many instances, but watch out for the out of tune throat notes.

   

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