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Peytonio
(5 points)
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Hello, I'm in a dilemma right now about trombones. I had a Bach 42B for 3 and a half years and decided it was time for a change. I got an Edwards T-350 trombone, and I think its tone does beat out the Bach's tone. But, there are some things about the instrument that annoy me (it doesn't sing like I thought it would; the Axial Flow Valve is not what I expected it to be, and I don't want to waste any more money [about $1100] to buy one of Edwards's rotary valves; and the tone color didn't turn out to be what I wanted after playing it for about 2 months).
I've had it for about 4 months now, and it's already had a couple of problems: I've had to take it in to the shop 2 times now because of a few faults, and these problems happened after the 2-week grace period Edwards gives its customers. The setup is similar to a Conn 88H setup (except it's in yellow brass instead of rose brass). I like the Edwards better than my Bach, but only marginally. And, there are still some things that I like about my Bach over my Edwards on a few things.
When I got my Bach in 2004, it was about $1900; now they are $2500. My Edwards trombone and my case together cost about $3900. But, I know the Edwards is not 2 times better than my Bach. It may be 1.2 times better, but definitely not 2 times better.
Anyway, with the background out of the way, here's my dilemma:
At our All-State Music Conference in mid-February, there were trombone exhibits open. I played on Shires, and thought the Edwards was better for me. I played on the Eastman by Shires Trombones and thought they were less than spectacular. Then, I made my way to the Conn-Selmer stand (with Bachs and Conns). The Bach was good, but the Conn, I thought, was outstanding. I thought it rivaled my Edwards, but I wasn't sure since I only had 10 minutes to play on the Conn and didn't have my Edwards with me at the time (it was in the rehearsal room). Well, I figured I'd play on my Edwards for another couple of months and make sure that I just wasn't used to it yet.
So, in early April (almost 2 months after All-State), I finally gave in and had my director get a Conn 88H-O delivered to us so I could play on it for about a week. I did, and I really thought it may have sounded better than the Edwards. It had a warmer sound and sang better, but it didn't project as much (typical of Conns, though, because of the red brass and unsoldered rims, so I wasn't surprised with that). My Edwards had a bigger sound, but the Conn felt easier to play; the slide was easier to move since it was more narrow (still a .547 bore though); and I felt my accuracy increased a little bit with the Conn.
Overall, the differences were subtle, and I was still undecided. So, in order to avoid a confrontation with my dad, I just let it be and kept the Edwards. Now (mid- to late-May), I'm beginning to regret that decision because my Edwards is already starting to show some signs of wear (only after 4 months), and there are still some tonal issues that irritate me. I know there's always going to be something on each horn that irritates me, but I still think the Conn sounded better. I was looking at the Con before the Edwards, and I chose the Edwards because it cost more than the Conn -- so I figured it would be better than the Conn and my Bach by a nice bit. I was wrong.
Anyway, I was contemplating selling my Edwards (hopefully for about $3000 since it's practically new) and getting the Conn (saving about $900 to $1000 in the end). I know that the equipment [once on trombones of professional level] is 2% of the playing and the player is 98% of the playing (i.e. practice is the main driving force behind great playing), but I don't want that 2% to catch up with me just because of what I think.
What do you guys suggest I do? Some people have told me keep the Edwards; others have told me to get the Conn. It's about 70/30 right now (70% say keep the Edwards, and 30% say get the Conn), but I'm still not sure.
Thank you! (Especially for reading this novel of a question)
--Peyton
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musicman
(176 points)
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Here's what I'm doing, and it would work for you too if your going into music in College as a major/minor
I'm actually doing the exact opposite that your doing. Except I'm looking at it in a different perspective.
I have a Conn 88H-CL, I like it except there is the problems, but its not exactly what I want for a sound in music I'll play one day--like orchestral and really really deep tone--I have the tone to the point i need a deeper sounding horn and response that my Conn just doesn't really reach.
So I'm going with the Edwards
This will probably be easier for you since it'd be cheaper that the $5000 I'm spending for a complete new set up (the Edwards horn, edge bracing (option #2), bullet bracing, and the Alessi Bone Caddy, along with a new custom mouthpiece) and I'm pay for it mostly through a lot of grant writing. Believe me, there are scholarships for pointless things (like if your 6"2' for guys and 5"8' for women there really is a scholarship for it). A instrument is a educated related necessity.
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Peytonio
(5 points)
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The Edwards will give you the depth you’re looking for, but you'll lose that Conn character. That's the problem I have right now -- I really love the character a Conn trombone has. Have you looked into the Greenhoe-Conn trombones? The valve in itself is outstanding. And, the way it is mounted on the instrument (and the customizations that the people at Greenhoe do to the instrument) really adds to the depth and response to the Conn while still retaining that true Conn sound. The valve uses something kind of like the bracing similar to Edwards's Edge Bracing. And they take apart the horn completely, modify it to their own modifications, and put it back together. So if you haven't already bought the Edwards, I'd look at Greenhoe too (they also do Bachs, but if you like Conns, you probably won't like the Bach). I like the Conn how it is (as of right now.. 10 years from now I may not believe the same thing), so a Greenhoe isn't what I'm after, but if you want a slightly deeper sound, I'd check it out.
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euphobone
(73 points)
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First of all: It seems that your edwards purchase was pre-mature. It sounds like you got it just because you "heard" good things about. But I might be wrong...I am not trying to be rude or anything, by the way, so bear with me and my rants.
In my experience, trying instruments in a convention/conference exhibit hall is very, very deceiving.
(1)The room is usually too big to really hear yourself
(2)there are a bunch of hacks all over the room blowing their brains out trying to out play the next hack
(3)and you yourself will probably be over playing just to be able to hear yourself and thusly you WON'T be playing on the instrument comfortably nor in the normal capacity that you would in a band setting or in a confined practice room.
Also, I am understanding that your dad must have payed for this horn. SO...I would stick it out with the Edwards---no need to turn the tides on the home front...as much as the instrument seems to keep you from getting the sound you want or the feel you want.
I think you are just another victim of the psycological game of playing a brass instrument.
Just stop thinking so much about the "bell construction" and the "Bell Material" how the "slide end-bow shape might affect the air flow", and how the "valve reacts as you engage the F side" or whatever else you have been told about picking the right instrument.
You are very young and will probably make a few more equipment changes during the remainder of your playing career. I am sure that it is safe to say that you have yet to completely master the fundamentals of air support and embouchure control.
YOU'RE LETTING THE DANG HORN BEAT YOU!!!
WIND AND SONG!!!
THAT'S WHAT BRASS PLAYING IS ALL ABOUT!!
I hope you figure it out. Good luck!
-Raul
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Peytonio
(5 points)
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Actually, that's pretty much right -- I heard about Edwards and looked at its pricetag (whoops).
Yeah, I did play the Conn at first in a big hall with other stuff going on, but I was able to get it rented for about a week at our school. I took it home and played on it. I really liked the Conn, but I was unsure whether the differences between the Conn and the Edwards were drastic enough. So I stayed with the Conn then. Now, I feel like I regret that decision, but I just don't know. I know I need to get my head out of the technical stuff (the Edwards won't hurt me) and just do it.
Thanks for the advice.
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euphobone
(73 points)
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The entire Conn line of horns is excellent for gewnerally being "STOCK" or "mass produced" Horns. Edwards are fantastic as well.
Don't be so disappointed. You didn't make a BAD decision, just a "pre-mature" one. Don't worry about what you don't like about the Edwards, just make it do what you want it to do.
I myself am a King 4B lover. I currently own 3! There are a few minor things I don't like about my horns, but I love the colorful sound, and the bite I can get out of them...Cause that's what I am looking for.
So, considering what you are striving for, I wouldn't ever recommend a King Trombone for you, personally, only because the King Trombones naturally have a more compact, some say "brighter" sound. Hence their popularity amongst Jazz Musicians.
Have fun practicing!!!
-Raul
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Peytonio
(5 points)
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Oops I had a typo earlier. I meant that I stayed with the Edwards, not the Conn, because I didn't think there were enough differences between the two. But now I'm regretting that. I don't know if I should switch to the Conn from an Edwards. I mean, either one I choose, I have to stick with it; I just don't know which one would be better for me.
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Le_Tromboniste
(57 points)
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And for the financial aspect, have you thought of buying your horn used? same quality, half the price...and I dont know if you tried other Bachs before switching to Edwards, but if you didnt, you should have, because Bach has a big regularity issue (due to bad quality control) and some of their horns are amazing, others are quite disappointing.
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SDC
(20 points)
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I have a 88h and its definately a good horn. Before you buy a horn, play all sorts of scales and runs to make sure it is what you're looking for. also, see how large your range is, how quick the responce is, how loud (or soft) the horn plays, etc. If you chosse to buy one that's preowned, double check the trigger and the slide for any damage.
Always use your mouthpiece when trying out horns. It just makes it easier.
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Peytonio
(5 points)
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I'm keeping the Edwards. I made that decision about a month ago. It's a great instrument, and so are Conn, Bach, Shires, and Rath, etc. I have to control the instrument, not the other way around, so whatever difficulties I may have on the Edwards will probably occur in some way on a Conn or any other horn. So, the only true "magic bullet" answer to this whole dillema is for me to practice more and make sure I am the one who controls the instrument.
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