Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?
 

Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?

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Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    16:55 on Monday, November 05, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes
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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    01:01 on Sunday, December 02, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

Well, the first ones (at least the first popular and famous ones) were made by Fender, and for quite sometime the instrument was accordingly called the "Fender bass". It obviously "descended" from the guitar, but since it was intended to function analogously to the way double basses functioned in jazz and pop music, clearly there was a reference to the double bass as well, playing on the circumstance that the four lowest strings of the guitar happens to be tuned an octave above the strings of the double bass.

<Added>

That should be happen, not happens.

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    17:13 on Thursday, December 06, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

Thanks for answering,Scotch.The E.B.G. is actualy descended from the Bass Lute,wich is a horizontal stringed instrument.I started this bass-ball(pund,intended) rolling to get us on 8-notes to think more creatively about the way we view our technique on our basses.The upright acoustic is a vertical stringed bass instrument,thus kin to the E.B.G.,but a totally different style of technique.If you can find it,look for an article in Bassplayer (May-1999) called "Perspective" by Jim Roberts (subject being Genealogy).Also you can type Bass lute into Google.If You cant find the article--I could Scan a copy from my mag and mail it to you.It is worth the effort to expand your thinking.By the way,my user name comes from a custom-made one-of-a-kind 7-string built by a Luthier here in Richmond,VA.I been playing for 25 yrs.,but started on guitar,so I play with a pick 90% of the time,and slow passages and cordal playing with my fingers,but my tech. is very different.Also I use diff. types of picks--rubber,felt--Hvy nylon--but I mute and implore speed metal pick tech. on right hand and legatto tech. on left hand.If you want to know how I sound,check out Boby Vega on BassPlayerTV on the WWW.Im not bragging-just sharing,Ive been honning this tech. for sev. yrs. and its vry hard.thanx Bro. Be Blessed. Chaz PS-picks were used on lutes,equally as much as fingers. This should be an interesting thread!!!

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    18:25 on Thursday, December 06, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

The E.B.G. is actualy descended from the Bass Lute,wich is a horizontal stringed instrument.

It may have some attributes fortuitously in common with the bass lute, but I doubt very much Leo Fender had in mind the bass lute when he designed his bass guitar, despite what your article may say.

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    18:47 on Thursday, December 06, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

This is from the Grove Dictionary of Music (the most reputable general musical resource in the English-speaking world), "online" version, under the entry "Electric Bass Guitar:

"An Electric guitar [my emphasis], usually with four heavy strings tuned E'A'DG. The electric bass guitar was invented by Leo Fender and was first marketed as the Fender Precision Bass in 1951 (see Fender). The instrument was introduced to meet the needs of musicians playing the bass part in small dance bands in the USA: they wanted not only a more easily portable instrument than the double bass, but one that could match the volume of the increasingly popular solid-bodied electric guitar, and could be played with greater precision than their large, fretless, acoustic instruments. Fender's electric bass guitar answered all these requirements. It was based on his already successful Broadcaster (later named Telecaster) six-string electric guitar [my emphasis], with a similar solid body of ash and neck of maple. The four strings were tuned to the same notes as the double bass (an octave below the bottom four of the six-string electric guitar), and a single pickup fed controls for volume and tone; the fretted fingerboard offered players the precision they wanted."



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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    00:58 on Friday, December 07, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

Scotch,the fist electric bass guitar(solid body)was invented in the 1930s by "Paul Tutmarc" of Audiovox,it just wasnt marketed very well.But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that electric basses evolved from acoustic ones,as did modern day electric guitars from acoustics(and modern-day acoustics trace thyre lineage back to the lute.The bass lutes of the Renaisance (the--Theorbo and Chitarrone,did have frets as did all lutes.The Harpers Dictoinary of music lists "bass guitar" as one of the meanings for the Italian word Chitarrone,later to be pronouced "Ghitaron" or the mexican bass guitar the "guitarron".The E.B.G. is a horizontal bass--not vertical,as the Uprigt(acoustic)bass is they are not the same thing.The acoustic bass is kin to the violin and is not a giutar at all.That was my main point,with that being said ,the Electric Bass Guitar can then played as a guitar,since it is not a upright-acoustic bass.This includes picks-distortion-affcts-extended range-solo bass.You still should do that Google search on"bass lutes".The truth is I started this subject because of the rude remarks made abuot pick players on another thread.Respectfuly if any finger player reading this thinks pick playres are pu**ys then you need to check out Bobby Vega.He filled in for Rocco Prestia when he was sick and even played some of the fastest funk songs with a pick(live-in concert) Be Blessed Chaz

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    01:04 on Friday, December 07, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

Scotch,the fist electric bass guitar(solid body)was invented in the 1930s by "Paul Tutmarc" of Audiovox,it just wasnt marketed very well.But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that electric basses evolved from acoustic ones,as did modern day electric guitars from acoustics(and modern-day acoustics trace thyre lineage back to the lute.The bass lutes of the Renaisance (the--Theorbo and Chitarrone,did have frets as did all lutes.The Harpers Dictoinary of music lists "bass guitar" as one of the meanings for the Italian word Chitarrone,later to be pronouced "Ghitaron" or the mexican bass guitar the "guitarron".The E.B.G. is a horizontal bass--not vertical,as the Uprigt(acoustic)bass is they are not the same thing.The acoustic bass is kin to the violin and is not a giutar at all.That was my main point,with that being said ,the Electric Bass Guitar can then played as a guitar,since it is not a upright-acoustic bass.This includes picks-distortion-affcts-extended range-solo bass.You still should do that Google search on"bass lutes".The truth is I started this subject because of the rude remarks made abuot pick players on another thread.Respectfuly if any finger player reading this thinks pick playres are pu**ys then you need to check out Bobby Vega.He filled in for Rocco Prestia when he was sick and even played some of the fastest funk songs with a pick(live-in concert) Be Blessed Chaz

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    01:46 on Friday, December 07, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

Look, no one has said the electric bass guitar "descended" from the double bass. On the contrary, I and the Grove Dictionary both clearly said that it derived directly from the electric guitar but with the intention to fulfil the basic function of the pizzicato double bass in jazz and pop.

Any similarity between the electric bass guitar and the bass lute is fortuitous, that is, a matter of happenstance. As it happens, however, the bass lute and the bass guitar are dissimilar in most important respects. The back of a lute, for example, is greatly curved (like a melon sliced in two), and a bass lute has many more strings than a bass guitar.

Tutmarc's early experiment, by the way, was an historical dead end. It made no mark on the electric bass guitar as we know it today and as we've known it since the Fender bass. Even if it had, though, this circumstance would not support your contention: the likelihood that Tutmarc modeled his instrument on the bass lute is also exceedingly low.


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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    21:46 on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

Scotch,I apologize.First of all,Idid not mean for this to turn into a arrow-splitting match.Second of all,nobody else said "the Electric bass guitar came from the upright acoustic bass",because nobody else bothered to comment.The only reason I asked the original question to start with is to--draw other musicians to that fact, it didnt.As I stated in my last reply,the electric bass guitar and the Upright acoustic bass are two different instrumrnts,one played verticaly--and one played horizontaly.These are the 2 main catigories of stringed bass instruments---acoustic or electric.It does however bring up the question--If the E.B.G. came from the electric guitar--where did the guitar descend from?I just want respect from other bassplayers not,a load of crapp about why Im inferior because I play with a pick.If others choose to play with fingers thats fine its not the only way that is proper.Instead of inconsiderate comments about pick playing why doesnt someone ask me how Ido it or what obstacles Ive overcome.Remember I play with fingers also,just not primarily.If anyone is wondering where Im coming from--just check out the thread about pick or fingers! Be Blessed Chaz.

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    15:19 on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

To all:This is the last reply I will make on this subject.If anyone wants a full history on the lineage of the electric bass guitar,check out this book by Mr.Jim Roberts--one of the original founding editors of bassplayer magazine and a foremost authority on the Fender electric bass.The title is"how the Fender bass changed the world".Reguardless of what the Grove Dictoinary of music says,this man knows what He is talking about.The book is even fowarded by,Marcus Miller.It is precise,and much indepth research went into its making.The first chapter is ,curiously entitled--Before Leo. Scotch-no hard feelings-we can all agree to disagree. Be Blessed Chaz.

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    00:16 on Friday, December 14, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

Scotch,I apologize.First of all,Idid not mean for this to turn into a arrow-splitting match.

I would be more impressed with this apology and with your character were you willing to admit defeat when you've been shown to be wrong.

Second of all,nobody else said "the Electric bass guitar came from the upright acoustic bass",because nobody else bothered to comment.

These non-existent, or at least non-present, persons function here as straw men, and your repeatedly invoking them can only be described as a form of rhetorical deceit.

The only reason I asked the original question to start with is to--draw other musicians to that fact, it didnt.

Quite likely because no one here does think the bass guitar derives from the double bass. In any case, it is insincere of you to ask a question when you aren't really interested in the answer.

If the E.B.G. came from the electric guitar--where did the guitar descend from?

The electric guitar derives from the guitar, of course. The guitar is a very old instrument, and music historians uniformly maintain that it does not derive from the lute. Even if it did, however, it would still be wrong to say that the electric bass guitar derives from anything but the electric guitar.

I just want respect from other bassplayers not,a load of crapp about why Im inferior because I play with a pick.If others choose to play with fingers thats fine its not the only way that is proper.Instead of inconsiderate comments about pick playing why doesnt someone ask me how Ido it or what obstacles I've overcome.Remember I play with fingers also,just not primarily.If anyone is wondering where Im coming from--just check out the thread about pick or fingers!

It just so happens that the lute is played with the fingers, not with a pick. (If you want more respect, I suggest you begin to attend to your spelling and punctuation.)

If anyone wants a full history on the lineage of the electric bass guitar,check out this book by Mr.Jim Roberts--one of the original founding editors of bassplayer magazine and a foremost authority on the Fender electric bass.The title is"how the Fender bass changed the world".Reguardless of what the Grove Dictoinary of music says,this man knows what He is talking about.


You'll have noticed that I quoted Grove verbatim. It seems to me as likely as not that you've mis-remembered or misconstrued this Roberts person, whoever he may be. I'm afraid I'm not going to try track down your book and I rather doubt anyone else here is either. If you want to use it as a source, the onus is on you to quote it directly and to state Roberts's credentials.

we can all agree to disagree.

This is rather like asking for a draw after you've already been checkmated. In any case, it's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It's a matter of establishing fact, regardless of whether or not it may justify your use of a pick.



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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    14:44 on Monday, December 17, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

cbo-7string
(16 points)

Enough,Scothc! You know nothing of my character,and secondly-you do not judge anyone by theyre ability to read,write,or speell.If I have offended you,I apologize and for that only! According to my sources,I am correct-just like you are by yours.I will not Argue to the point of STRIFE with you ever again.A man is judged by what is in his heart-not his head.If you do not believe or agree with that truth,then you will when you stand before Almighty God some day.You have offended me,but I forgive you even though you trampled my first apology.And the last thing I will ever say on this website is this:I said,agree to disagree because I wanted to encourage peace not stire up more strife,Scotch you are a very intelligent and gifted man-but dont let that rule you-You are rigt I dont know it all-but I know the One who does-If you ever want to know who I really am-call me 804-422-5737-or come to Richmond,VA. Be Blessed Chaz.

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Re: Does anyone know what instrument---- the modern(solid-body)bass guitar is descended from?    12:22 on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Scotch
(591 points)

According to my sources,I am correct-just like you are by yours.

You don't quote your sources, and it is thus reasonable to suppose you are misconstruing them. The main point, though, is that you are disseminating misinformation here, and it is my ethical responsibility to try to stop you. (By the way, you seem to have lied when you said you were done with this. What you may have really meant is that you deserve to get the last word, which of course is nonsense.)

I looked over the pick v. fingers thread. Not a single contributer there suggested that the bass guitar derives from the double bass, although, naturally enough, it was suggested that the two instruments have analogous or similar musical functions and are in this way strongly related.

   

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