|
|
 |
Metroidgirl
(4 points)
| 
Hi everyone, (I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but...)
I have a couple of questions: I'm a composer and I have an assignment to write a piece for percussion. I want to include some bowing techniques. Does anybody know how to notate that? (It's a bit of a contemporary thing so it's not normally seen in traditional notation.) Also, I have no idea what the actual term is, but instead of hitting the cymbal, I want the player to kind of drag the stick across the cymbal and let it ring out. Does anybody know how to properly notate that? (Or know the term)
Thanks guys
p.s. - one more thing...is there something special I have to do on snare drum notation to have it switch between snares and no snares?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JOhnlovemusic
(193 points)
|
For cymbal drag you can notate with tabulature with a "d", or use 2 to 3 grace notes connected to the length of note you want the drag to be.
For snare drum I would use "x"'s for snare and "o"'s for no snare (depending how quickly you are going between the two.
Bowing - get out your string technique book 101. An insert mark for up bow and a square hat for down bowing. If you want to require something else you will probably have to describe what you want in notes at the begining and then make up a symbol that reflects the request.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scotch
(436 points)
|
Whoah, Nelly! Hold off a while.
| For snare drum I would use "x"'s for snare and "o"'s for no snare (depending how quickly you are going between the two. |
|
The convention is simply to write in the score "snares off" where you don't want them. Snares on is the default. If you're switching very rapidly between snares on and off, this notation might be cumbersome, but consider that the player probably isn't going to want to switch very rapidly from snares off and on anyway.
A snare drum with an x note-head usually means rim click.
| Bowing - get out your string technique book 101. An insert mark for up bow and a square hat for down bowing. |
|
The problem with this advice is that the technique described is usually called scraping rather than bowing, and will not likely be understood by a percussionist as bowing.
| If you want to require something else you will probably have to describe what you want in notes at the begining and then make up a symbol that reflects the request. |
|
Since percussion notation is not standardized, you always need either to write verbal directions (usually abbreviated) in the score or provide a key or legend anyway. Conform with convention as much as possible and only invent new notations as a last resort. I happen to own a percussion notation book, and when I get home I'm going to check to see if it says anything about scraping and then report back to you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scotch
(436 points)
|
Well, I checked my percussion notation book, and unfortunately there is no mention of scraping (or "dragging" or bowing).
I think I might have misread your original question and its first reply. I assumed scraping was being equated with bowing:
Scraping is a pretty common drumset technique (at least in post-bop jazz), and it's usually performed without otherwise striking the cymbal within the scrape. Unless you can find a precedent in pre-existing notation, it may be best simply to notate it as you would a cymbal stroke but write "scrape" above the note (and maybe include at the end or the beginning of the score a more precise description of the technique).
I've seen a vibraphone bowed (with a conventional violin, viola, cello, or bass bow--I've forgotten which). I don't know if this would work with a cymbal, and you haven't specified what instrument you want bowed (if you really were making a distinction between bowing and scraping, that is). As for up-bow and down-bow marks: If you care which direction the performer is going you should of course include these, but they don't tell him to bow in the first place; they only work if he already knows he's supposed to be bowing.
In conventional string playing, bowing, as you presumably know, is the default. Pizzicato tells the performer to stop bowing, and arco tells him to resume bowing. Since arco is actually Italian for bow, there is a very strong precedent for a verbal description here.
I'd say write either bow or arco where you want bowing and (again) include a fuller description at the end or beginning of the score--or in a footnote.
These are just my provisional answers, by the way. If I come across any notated instances I'll try to remember to let you know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Metroidgirl
(4 points)
|
Yeah I was driving myself nuts trying to find some kind of standardized notation for scraping. Since there doesn't seem to be one, I'm going to write exactly what you mentioned for the notation.  It makes sense and is understandable. And yes, I'm using the two separate techniques of bowing and scraping. The cymbal is supposed to be very softly scraped and allowed to ring out in the beginning, and then it will be bowed later on. The vibraphone will be bowed as well for most of the piece. The cymbal sounds really really interesting when bowed. It produces a really out-of-this-world sound that just engulfs the listener. It's perfect for contemporary (even though this form of music is definitely not my forte in composing.)
Well, thank you so much for your helpful answers. I really appreciate you taking the time to look them up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
zoom
(365 points)
|
While you're exploring cymbal sounds, try the technique of lowering the cymbal (or, more usually, a gong or similar) into a big tub of water as it is being struck – once, or rolled – or otherwise sounded. The result could be described in general terms as a downward glissando – but the timbral change is quite a bit more complicated (and interesting!) Upward gliss: vice versa.
I had bowed vibes in a piece a few years ago. I'm pretty sure the players used bass bows on that occasion. The requirement was for a fairly continuous drone and the players changed bow direction at will. Last year I saw a percussion ensemble concert including bowed vibes, crotales and cymbals – it looked like the players had special, short bows approx 300-400mm in length. Unfortunately I didn't get a closer look.
Remember that cymbal bowings can be either sustained or a short, rapid bow, with the cymbal left to ring: "l.v." = laisser vibrer (?) anyhow, it's French. A short tie from the notehead to nowhere in particular = same thing.
With notation for the cymbal scrape (sorry, don't know the right term), how about the notehead occurring on the beat where the note starts, with a short upward glissando – curved or squiggly line – coming off the notehead? (= jazz doit?) The glissando symbol could either end wherever, or on a particular (grace-)note if that's what you want. (A scrape of some description, less zingy, can extend indefinitely of course.) For more zing, hang some el cheapo bits of necklace from the centre bolt across the surface of the cymbal ( ... roughly the equivalet of a sizzle cymbal, which "legit" percussionists may not have handy).
Another groovy thing – worth 5 or 10 marks! – is to have your own custom stave setup – ie: don't automatically put everything on five-lined staves.
Let's say you wanted a complicated pattern on 2 side drums (one with snares on, the other with snares off), a temple block and a small gong lying flat on a piece of cloth on a table. For the sake of this exercise, let's have the instruments arrayed (left to right) ... S.D. (no snares) – temple block – gong – S.D. (snares on). Your custom score paper might have 4 lines, more widely spaced than usual, with the left-hand instrument = bottom line ... to ... right-hand instrument = top line. The stick pattern then bears some sort of graphic resemblance to the notation.
(Remember to specify which sticks, and not necessarily two of the same type – although this sometimes irks players due to the difference in stick weight. Depends on how intricate the part is. Note also that in this example, there'd be some sympathetic buzzing from the snares-on drum.)
The other type of non-standard stave layout is pitch-based, high to low. You might have (say) a 3-line stave for three metal things, on top of a 4-line stave for four wooden things ... etc.
In my day *adjusts walking frame* the Reginald Smith Brindle book seemed to be the go. Don't know about the current standard text/s.
Hope this helps – let's know the outcome.
zoom
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scotch
(436 points)
|
| With notation for the cymbal scrape (sorry, don't know the right term), how about the notehead occurring on the beat where the note starts, with a short upward glissando – curved or squiggly line – coming off the notehead? (= jazz doit?) |
|
I think this is a good idea--but I'd still write scrape above the staff (in addition to "gliss." line).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scotch
(436 points)
|
| I am pretty sure the grace-note tied a note is standard (or maybe it was standard in my old days). |
|
There really is no standard notation for non-pitched percussion (in contradistinction to timpani, and so on)--not counting rudiments, I suppose--, although some conventions are more wide-spread than others.
I'd be wary of the grace-notation because it seems misleading to me. It implies two strokes as in a flam. Of course, you may want two strokes, but most scrapes only involve one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JOhnlovemusic
(193 points)
|
I am so wrong but . . . .
Well, the "drag" notation I was refering to is exactly what Scoth brought up. It is for drum and indicates a double bounce flam. A couple of friends in the business responded to an email I sent out. My friend Michelle plays a lot. She mentioned there is a bow made for bowing percussion instruments. It is very expensive and she, and everyone she knows personally, just use an old cello or bass bow.
My friend Fred who is a performer, conductor, and teacher says this:
"First of all, although there have been attempts at "standardization" when it comes to percussion notation, there are no accepted norms, at least not in the real world. The reality is that there are many ways to notate different effects within the world of percussion sounds and instrumentation. The most important thing is that what is being notated is as clear as possible, and if necessary, notes to the conductor should be included on the score to explain the intent of the composer at specific points in the music, particularly if there is any question about interpreting the notation used.
Having said that, below reflects my preferences, not what is right or wrong:
cymbal drag
I think grace notes are inappropriate to depict a scrape. My preference is an upward curved line, as in a "scoop" effect in jazz. This notation should be accompanied by the words "scrape cymbal with coin" or something specific to the intent of the composer. A "drag" is a typical snare drum rudiment notated with a pair of 1/16th note grace notes which precede the actual note itself. It is also appropriate to
add a curved line following the note, if the cymbal is to be allowed to ring or L.V. (let vibrate).
bowing cymbal. The words "bow cymbal" or "with bow"
would be appropriate. Simply inserting up and down bows in a cymbal part would be unusual and confusing without further direction notated on the part.
bowing vibraphone - The words "with bow" would be appropriate in addition to the bowings. Actually, the bowings are not necessary in either of these situations. Why would the composer care about the bow direction? It is the performance practice that
is important to communicate. Their should be notes in the score in all of the above situations, either on the individual parts, in the conductor's score, or preferably both."
-end quote-.
I add and suggest a great tool called proofing. Write your instructions, mark your music and give it to someone who plays. Watch and listen to see how they interpret it. If they interpret it incorrectly make note of it but do not tell them they are wrong. Afterwards you can either tell them what you wanted and ask how they would like to see it, or don't tell them what you wanted but instead give them different instructions until they do what you are looking for. The goal is for the piece to be interpreted without you needing to be there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scotch
(436 points)
|
| My friend Michelle plays a lot. She mentioned there is a bow made for bowing percussion instruments. It is very expensive and she, and everyone she knows personally, just use an old cello or bass bow. |
|
I'm wondering how significant the adjective old is here. In other words, does bowing a cymbal or a vibraphone slab (there's probably a better name for this) threaten to damage the bow--such that a player would want to use a bow he wasn't much worried about damaging?
| I add and suggest a great tool called proofing. Write your instructions, mark your music and give it to someone who plays. Watch and listen to see how they interpret it. If they interpret it incorrectly make note of it but do not tell them they are wrong. Afterwards you can either tell them what you wanted and ask how they would like to see it, or don't tell them what you wanted but instead give them different instructions until they do what you are looking for. The goal is for the piece to be interpreted without you needing to be there. |
|
I think this is good advice in general, but one should be careful not to make performers feel like laboratory rats. Since the term composer might be defined as a person who tells other persons what to do, the relation between composer and performer can be precarious--yet (non-electronic) composers are absolutely dependent on performers.
Here's a little anecdote about notation:
I had a passage in which I wanted a violin more or less to imitate a rock electric guitar. There was a bluesy gliss followed by the instruction "molto vibrato" (as I had originally notated it). I asked a violinist to try out the passage.
She played it, and then I said, "Molto vibrato."
She played it again. I said, "More vibrato."
She played it a third time. I said, "Still more vibrato."
She laughed and said, "Oh you want crazy vibrato," and played it just how I'd imagined.
I was tempted to write "crazy vibrato" in the score.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Buy & Sell Visual Art
Composition Competitions
UK Writers' Community
Ram Upgrades
CodeToad
|
searching...
