mouth piece placement/ embrochure

    
mouth piece placement/ embrochure    18:21 on Thursday, November 9, 2006          

kpx001
(1 point)
Posted by kpx001

hi i just recently switched from trumpet to french horn after marching season. I was wondering if there would be a big diffrence in the placement in mouthpiece because i heard on horn its supposedly 2/3 on top and 1/3 on bottom. when i try that the notes are all muffled and i cannot go in the upper registry where as my trumpet embrochure im able to hit up to high C and it is clearer. Also can anyone describe how it should feel if i use the standard french horn embrochure / find a pic? thanks


Re: mouth piece placement/ embrochure    02:57 on Friday, November 10, 2006          

ekdavies
(208 points)
Posted by ekdavies

2/3 upper and 1/3 lower is where most teachers would start a pupil but there is much variation seen amongst very good players. The Art of French Horn Playing by Phillip Farkas covers embouchure fairly well.

My instinct would be to advise that you use a mouthpiece with a similar internal diameter to that which you used on trumpet. Assuming you are in the US, then you will probably have a narrow rim mouthpiece and may find a wider rim easier - see for examples.

Some issues to watch:

1. Dont force your lips within the rim of the mouthpiece let the mouthpiece rest on your lips - most commonly with the inside of the rim just above the red of the upper lip. Don't worry if this means that the rim is set into the lower lip - although if you can't get enough of the lower lip in comfortably you will have to set the rim into both lips.

2. Avoid pressure - especially if you set the rim into the lips. With a thin rim mouthpiece you will have no endurance if you use pressure.

3. Avoid stretching the lips to achieve higher notes. Tense them as if you are whistling. Farkas uses the expression "puckered smile" to describe the compromise.

4. Once you can play any notes in the top octave focus on the shape of the lip opening. This is important for tone and needs to be oval.

5. Depending on the trumpet mouthpiece you used, you may find that horn needs more air flow especially in the top octave. A shallower mouthpiece and narrower bore may be desirable.

6. Initially you should give priority to developing tone, a revised sense of pitch etc up to written third space C (and down up to 2 octaves). You will need a double, compensating or Bb horn to play reliably in the top octave.


Re: mouth piece placement/ embrochure    13:07 on Friday, December 8, 2006          

granny
(132 points)
Posted by granny

I think you'd be better off NOT making any dramatic or direct changes to your embouchure just because you've switched to horn. It could be disastrous. My best advice would be for you to gradually & gently work with what you've got, accepting changes as they occur naturally. You may be playing to way you're playing because of the shape of your lips, teeth, or whatever. Changing things could make things worse.

Not to be disrespectful to the previous poster, but I personally had terrible luck with the Farkas method. I found myself stuck for 3 years w/ seriously limiting range & endurance trying to follow his prescribed "smiling pucker," embouchure placement,etc. My "expert" French horn instructors in college & the community weren't able to help me even though I practiced my fanny off. Out of desparation I finally found the help I needed from Jeff Smiley, a trumpet teacher in Garland, Texas. He has a development system that trains the lips to do what is needed w/o over analysis or direct changes. His system works for every player because it doesn't prescribe a certain set up, but works with the person's natural anatomy. Your own lips can figure out what to do if you give them the proper tools to work with. Search the web for Jeff Smiley or Balanced Embouchure. You'll find lots of help. ~Valerie


Re: mouth piece placement/ embrochure    13:08 on Friday, December 8, 2006          

granny
(132 points)
Posted by granny

I think you'd be better off NOT making any dramatic or direct changes to your embouchure just because you've switched to horn. It could be disastrous. My best advice would be for you to gradually & gently work with what you've got, accepting changes as they occur naturally. You may be playing to way you're playing because of the shape of your lips, teeth, or whatever. Changing things could make things worse.

Not to be disrespectful to the previous poster, but I personally had terrible luck with the Farkas method. I found myself stuck for 3 years w/ seriously limiting range & endurance trying to follow his prescribed "smiling pucker," embouchure placement,etc. My "expert" French horn instructors in college & the community weren't able to help me even though I practiced my fanny off. Out of desparation I finally found the help I needed from Jeff Smiley, a trumpet teacher in Garland, Texas. He has a development system that trains the lips to do what is needed w/o over analysis or direct changes. His system works for every player because it doesn't prescribe a certain set up, but works with the person's natural anatomy. Your own lips can figure out what to do if you give them the proper tools to work with. Search the web for Jeff Smiley or Balanced Embouchure. You'll find lots of help. ~Valerie


Re: mouth piece placement/ embrochure    00:06 on Saturday, December 9, 2006          

brad711
(17 points)
Posted by brad711

I switched from trumpet to horn at the beginning of this school year. I probably should be doing that, but I don't really. However, now that I'm learning really low notes, I can't play with 1/2 and 1/2. I'm transitioning really gradually. I suggest you use the 2/3 and 1/3 while playing easy music, but don't try to use pressure or force it just to be able to use the 2/3 and 1/3.
Brad


   




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