Hello everyone I have commented on a couple of posts before actaully introducing myself. I played trumpet for about 10 years, I play 3 times a week in my church band. I also play various other instruments such as drum set fill in, percussion congas djembe etc. I play native flutes, Flugal horn, and Im pretty nifty with spoons :-)

I have recently been stuned by the sound of the french horn that I prolly have heard a lotta times in my life but it just struck me a few days ago and I love the awesome range of sounds. It struck me so much that I gotta give it a try, I got into playing flugal horn as a second brass double to give me the sound that actually comes from a french horn. While the flugal does a decent job as being a little more mellow of a sound from the trumpet the horn is really the sound I was after all this time and didnt know it till now.

I have read online some place that doubling trumpet and french horn isnt a good idea, but Im one that likes to take a new challenge and prove somethings can be done, and I love this sound so much im going to give it a shot. I did a little research on horns, music, the technicals of them and all. I know the ticket is a double horn but I cant afford one now so Im going to start with a single Bb the reason I chose the Bb is I hope for the right reason.... because everything else I play or have played was or is in Bb in that thinking I went with a single Bb, it does have the 4th key which isnt a key switching valve its a stop valve supposed to do the same as stop horn with hand in bell I think and has nothing to do with changing the key because its a single horn. I have read some good about starting in a single Bb and natrally I have read some other opinions on why its not a good idea, but my thinking is its way cheaper and Im sort of testing the waters right now and I rather test them with a cheaper single horn first to see if I like it and will continue on with it.

Any do's dont's tips, I would appreciate.
please dont bash me beacause I jumped in with both feet with out knowing much about french horn playing and grabbed a cheap horn to get started on. It was either this or nothing at all and I wanted to at least give it a shot. I did read a post about fingering troubles with a Bb singlr horn what sort of chart would I need for this horn that doesnt assume Im playing an F/Bb with the 4th valve pressed? Can I get that online?
thanks in advance Im glad to find this forum and I look forward to chatting music with you guys it looks like a great place to be!!!

just to correct something I said in the earlier post because I just read someone on the board with experience.

the 4th thumb valve is called a stop trigger but actually changes the pitch of the horn to make it sound stopped and it doesnt really stop it liturally.

M. Bluesbox,

Here is support for your campaign and clarification of some things.

Doubling on trumpet and french horn is not a bad idea. The purists will say you can't do both. But then the purists said you couldn't play oboe and flute, and saxophone (but all the good pit players do). You said "I know the ticket is a double horn" - this is often generally true but not always. I do not know anyone who plays professionally on a single F horn, but I do know a couple of people who play professionally on a single Bb horn. So a single Bb horn is not a bad investment. One of my Teachers had his daughter playing a single Bb and she did very well. There are also new things coming down the pike in the near future. Bb is the right choice but not because you are a Bb flat instrument person. But it is an excellent choice. The Bb horn is the same as the high side of a double horn so you have your high range covered there. You will just need to work a little on the lower range - but it is not that bad.
The 4th key. There are many many misconceptions about the fourth key. It IS called a "stopping" valve. It, itself does not stop the horn. For stopped horn to be played properly you need to do it on an F horn. When you stop an F horn it raises the pitch a half step. When you stop a Bb Horn it raises the pitch 3/4 step. So the stop valve adds tubing so you can stop the horn. You can use the stop valve to help hit the lower notes the regular Bb Horn doesnlt get.

Do's:
Practice consistently. Long tones help build embouchres for Horns and this is more important on the Horn than the Trumpet.

Don'ts: Don't be discouraged.
Because the tolerances are different(as in tighter and closer) on the Horn things that you get away with on trumpet (like having your lips just a little out of synch) will be more obvious on the horn. So you might think you are making more mistakes, but you aren't (you were just getting away with them on the trumpet).

Disregard the post you read on the fingerings, I do not think it will apply to you.

You can get fingering charts on-line. If you have trouble email me and I will get one for you.

WARNING :: I only know one person who tried french horn that did not stay with it. So if you are jumping in know ahead that you can't get out. The instrument is too beautiful and fun to ever leave it.

John

oh John you made my year bro!!
Thanks just the things I needed to hear. I was a bit worried at first about having made my purchase and then reading a lot of negetive things about what I did. My horn is on the way and I cant wait to get started, even more now that you have replied in support! I heed your warning if its every bit adicting as the sound I hear from already good players then I think im in for a great long joyious ride!

The good part is I play in church already and I think this instrument will add a new demension to our sound and my playing when I get some learning, practice and decent playing under my belt.
I appreciate your fast reply and your encouragment it means a lot to me, and you may have helped another horn player enter into the world of horn playing!
Randy

one more thing, http://www.amromusic.com/band/fhorn/fingering_chart_horn.html is this a proper fingering chart? And can you explain... is the second row of fingerings for Bb?
I do see there there is T for thumb but I dont see it often and I dont get what the second row of fingerings is.
Thanks!

The second row indicates some alternative fingerings. The T indicates that the Bb side of the horn is to be used. Some horns can be configured to stand in F or Bb and pressing the thumb lever switches to the other side. Thus if your horn sits in F the T indicates pressing the thumb lever ...

I know about the "T" but remember this is a single Bb horn , do I use these same fingering chart for the Bb single as a Bb with slide pressed fingering? Will it produce the same notes and sounds?

Blues -
I do not like that fingering chart. As mentioned above almost all fingering charts are going to be for double horn. And as such valve indications will be for F Horn. The "T" will indicate the Bb horn fingering. Let me see if there is an online fingering chart I like better and I will post it for you.

Also, if you are going to be playing in church you will love the opportunities you will have with the Horn. You will be able to play trumpet 3 parts when there is no horn part, simply by learning the F Horn fingerings. It will be a piece of cake to play the trombone or tenor parts in the Hymnal. Lots of stuff you can do.

Let me go find a fingering chart.

John

Blues -
I do not like that fingering chart. As mentioned above almost all fingering charts are going to be for double horn. And as such valve indications will be for F Horn. The "T" will indicate the Bb horn fingering. Let me see if there is an online fingering chart I like better and I will post it for you.

Also, if you are going to be playing in church you will love the opportunities you will have with the Horn. You will be able to play trumpet 3 parts when there is no horn part, simply by learning the F Horn fingerings. It will be a piece of cake to play the trombone or tenor parts in the Hymnal. Lots of stuff you can do.

Let me go find a fingering chart.

John

Blues -
I do not like that fingering chart. As mentioned above almost all fingering charts are going to be for double horn. And as such valve indications will be for F Horn. The "T" will indicate the Bb horn fingering. Let me see if there is an online fingering chart I like better and I will post it for you.

Also, if you are going to be playing in church you will love the opportunities you will have with the Horn. You will be able to play trumpet 3 parts when there is no horn part, simply by learning the F Horn fingerings. It will be a piece of cake to play the trombone or tenor parts in the Hymnal. Lots of stuff you can do.

Let me go find a fingering chart.

John

Here is a fingering chart I like better.

http://boerger.org/horn/finger.shtml

Remember your primary goal is to learn the Bb fingerings and they will work when you play music written for Horn in F.

Second goal is to learn the F Horn fingerings. Then you can use these to 'cheat' when transposing Bb instruments.

Of course to be a real horn player you will want to learn to tranpose correctly, eventually. And you do want to learn to transpose. Imagine this, last year I was hired to play at a wedding. It was going to be a WoodWind Quintet and String Quartet playing separately and then together as a Nonnet. We were not going to see the music until we got to the site (we met at a University parking lot and were transported by Secret Service to the wedding location - President Clinton was at the wedding as a guest). We get there and the guests are arriving and they place the books in front of us on music stands and say GO. The first piece was written for Horn in F, The second piece was Horn in D, Horn in F, Horn in G, Horn in Bb basso, and finally Horn in C.

Always remember Horn playing is fun. There are higher expectations from the Horn section, always have been and always will be. It is the nature of the fluke of music world. But you will always get more accolades than others. Everyone thinks it's the hardest instrument, let them think it.

JOhn

John you have been a big help and some inspiration, everytime I come here I get a little more horse power, now Im about to catch a fit waiting to get started when my horn arives!!

This chart is one that I have saved to my pc, I had found a few online I'll stick to this one if its what you recommend.

I wished there were beginner double horns in close price range as a single, I hate the fact that im learning half of the whole story first, I know later I can upgrade and learn more with the F side which is cool and that makes it not so bad I guess, so all the Bb stuff I learn will not change one iohda when I switch to a double horn right? I'll just be learning the F part of the horn at that time?

Blues -
There are some used double horns out there you can get for a good price. I would not worry about that right now. By the time you are ready to switch to a double it may not be the double you would chose today. You are actually learning more than half the story with your Bb horn. Depending what you are playing you might be playing 75% of your notes above G on the staff which is where most doubel horns palyers switch over to the Bb side. You are correct that everything you learn on the Bb horn is still good when you upgrade. When you are ready to upgrade you may not be going to the present traditional double - there is movement going on right now to use double descants in Bb and Eb alto. My friend who plays in a major symphony back east got so used to the traditional double that their whole section plays Bb/Eb horns except him, he plays a Bb/F alto (becasue he is scared of learning the new fingerings for the Eb alto. So actually you are in a very good position with your single Bb.

John

well thats all good to know, so far all the decisions I have been making toward this venture has been in the right direction!!!

That makes me a very happy camper!
Thanks so much for directing a total noob. Im sure I willhave more questions.

I have one more question, on this chart http://boerger.org/horn/finger.shtml
sense I have a single Bb horn the chart shows fingering for F/Bb-w-slide... which do I use the F finger parts or the Bb fingering parts? Also some notes say N/a what would I do in that case? Use the fingering for the horn it does show? and will it be the right note?