I have a Holton 177. The F side is in tune. On the Bb side I have to pull out the main slide and all the valve slides to the max. The change valve is aligned and there is no damage to the horn. Does anyone have any ideas? I bought this horn used so I can't take it back!

Maybe you tuned it incorrectly.

Put your valve slides back to about 1/4 inch pulled out.
Not to be mean but lets identify your tuning slides to be sure we are on the same page.
If you follow your lead pipe from the mouthpiece the first tuning slide you come to, on the back side of the horn, is your main tuning slide. Place this so it is pulled out only about 1/4 of an inch.

On the front of your horn there is a slide similar to your main tuning slide coming out of your change valve, place it at 1/8 of an inch; this is your F horn slide. And there is a slide with a sharp bend pointing down and a ring on it; this is your Bb horn tuning slide.
Place your Bb slide at 1/4 inch.

Now see how well in tune you are on a C using your Bb trigger. Adjust you Bb tuning slide.
Now adjust your F horn slide on the same note.
Then use your main tuning slide for adjusting to other instrumentalists at band.

Does that help you?

I have a question about a Holton 177 too. Is it possible on that horn to change the thumb valve from standing in F to standing in Bb (and not using the string, but a sort of adapter for that)? Maybe it is a matter of age, the serial# is 682xxx.

Is it possible to change the standing key? Technically yes, I think it can be done. Is it feasible? uh, no. Very expensive. You could get someone to fabricate the thumb change lever for you and keep the string set up. If you wanted something other than a string set up then you could do that as well but were talking a lot of money.

Your best bet would be to get a change valve from a horn manufacturer that allows for either setting and then have your horn modified to accept the replacement valve and have a thumb lever made special to work it correctly. By the time you are done it would possibly be better and less expensive to get another horn.

I'm curious as to why you want an H177 to stand in Bb.
If you really want to do it I would go with a fabricated valve lever that sits on the other side of the rotor stop. That wouldn't be that expensive.

I want it that way because I started on a single Bb horn and play on the Bb side now for most of the time.
I ask because I used to play a Holton 278 that could be changed, with a simple adjustment on the screw on top of the valve. Another 179 I saw couldn't be changed that way, so the string needed to be strung the other way round which resulted in a very long lever way. And the 179 was around 30yrs old, while the 278 was only 10yrs. That's why I thought it could be a matter of age.
The shop here in germany that sold Holton horns closed (which sold me the 278 already adjusted to Bb/F), so I can't ask there anymore. That's why I'm asking here.

Give me a week to figure something out.

I am flying out to my horn maker on Thursday for a couple of days.
I will expain to him what you want to do.
It may be possible to get just the rotor stop off a trashed Paxman or something and adapt it to the 179. Or braze something onto the existing rotor stop. Then design a new lever. I would think it would be in the $200 to $300 amount. Which would be a good deal.

You know, I bet we can unbraze the rotor stop pendulum off and move it 180 degrees and re-braze it. This will rotate your change valve 180 degrees but you won't have to change anything. It may affect compression and technically will result in the valve rotor wearing out sooner. But unless you are playing 6 hours a day every day I don't think it will be noticable to you. Cost about $50.

You will have to recut your rubber stoppers by looking down the pipes with a mirror - you won't be able to use the marking on the top bearing anymore. But I think this is the simplest way to go.

I'll send you a PM when I get back next weekend.

John

I asked a real horn player and she said that I should use my hand to flatten the Bb side. I will try to work on my technique more. I am a recent convert from trumpet and am not used to sticking my hand in the bell.

Lazo,
#1 - did you try my tuning of the horn technique?
If you were my student I would tune the horn for you. You may be playing the different sides of the horn differently. There will be a slight difference in resistence between the two horns. The horn should be able to tune to itself - if not a good repairman can make appropriate adjustments so that the horn does.

#2 - You asked a real horn player?! And what do you think I am (or am not)?

As you become more efficient you do need to and you will find yourself moving your hand slightly to adjust individual notes. However, to use your hand to flatten out the entire Bb horn is not necessary and quite frankly a pain especially when you find yourself going between horn sides every beat of the measure. And when you get down to it, it's not right. It's not the correct way to fix your issue.

Find a local college and go to the French Horn instructor and see if you can get him or her to tune your horn to itself. Once that is done you will only have to move the main tuning slide. I doubt the professor will charge you anything for this. And in fact will probably give you a couple of pointers on playing.

My bad! By real horn player I meant some one that had more experience than me. I was not insinuating anything about you.

After she said that I was trying to figure out how to move my hand in and out of the bell without looking like I was trying to start a fire. The horn tunes to itself. I was going to tune this weekend but found I had a dead battery in my Korg.

Thanks for your help. I will update after I try your suggestions.

If the Bb side is consistently sharp, that probably means that your hand position is not appropriate for that horn's design. Try using a little more hand "cover" to lower the pitch. The Bb side of the horn is shorter than the F side, so as you close in more on the bell with your right hand the Bb side will flatten more than the F side. You'll have to monkey around with hand positions to find what the optimum hand position is for your horn. I'd recommend you sit with a tuner & work on third space C. Play it on the open F horn, then swith to the Bb side compare. If the Bb side is sharp, use more hand & keep coming in until both sides are more "matched". When you find that sweet spot, that's the hand position that will work best with your horn.

Valerie Wells
"The Balanced Embouchure" for French Horn

please help.

I have just recently switched from trumpet to horn and i have a conn 6D. It is the schools and no one at my school(including my teachers) knows much about the horn. It is really sharp on the Bb side and i can't find the Bb tuning slide. My teacher is a trumpet player and i have asked him about it but he doesn't know how to fix it. i have been putting up with it for a few months but i have a competition comming up and i really stick out because it is so sharp. Please help.

John, can you help me identify the tuning slides on a Conn 8D? I just started playing a few months ago and got my horn over the summer, so I can't ask my horn playing friends for another month
Thank you!!

missmel99 & tjhsbands,

here are some answers for both of you, missmel99 first.
You have a 6D. I will assume you know which slides are for your valve levers. The set on top, the longer ones are for the F side of the horn and the underneath set is for your Bb side of the horn. The 6D has two slides for the F horn and none for the Bb side. So, tune your Bb side first. You will be using the main tuning slide this is the slide on the front of the horn at about 10 oclock when looking straight at it. With your thumb trigger engaged tune to C (3rd space treble clef). Then tune your Bb valve slides (2nd Valve, 1st valve, then compromise them). Then tune the 2/3 valve combination by only moving the 3rd valve slide. Now go back and tune your F side of the horn. There are two tuning slides on the back if you hold the valve levers with your left hand your right hand is right there where the tuning slides are - it doesn't matter which one you move. Tune your F horn to an open G (2nd space treble clef). Now do the valves just like you did on the Bb side.

tjhsbands -
You have an 8D. If you put your finger on your mouthpipe where your mouthpiece goes in and follow that pipe, the first pipe you come to is your main tuning slide. There is a slide on the front of the horn at 10 oclock and one on the back.Both these slides are F horn slides and it doesn't matter which one you move. Follow the tuning techniques above to tune your horn (tune Bb horn first by moving the main tuning slide and then tune your F horn by moving the F horn tuning slides.

I hope this helps you both.
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