French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.
 

French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.

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French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    06:37 on Friday, August 14, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Alverindo
(15 points)

Hi. In your experience which instrument gives lesser resistance when being played, the f. horn or the trumpet?
They are both brass inst. Which do you think will not make you easily tired.
Im doing an inquiries because I like to help my friend to research and choose an instrument that will not make his hernia to recurr.
Considering reeds instruments, he is favoring the tenor sax than the alto sax, because many are saying that tenor needs lot air but warm only and with lesser pressure.The alto needs a tight embo. and like the clarinet the music piece requires many notes.
Considering the french horn and trumpet I think the french horn parts needs lesser notes.And some says the horn is simple to blow and in blowing it youre not pressured unlike the trumpet which needs tight embouchure.
What I Think so that his hernia will not recurr is to choose which one is easy to blow. Ease of blowing means lesser resistance I think. And tight embouchure and more resistance by the instrument adds pressure to the stomach/abdomen and that is risky to have hernia.
What can you say?? Pls comment on these. Thanks.

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    01:17 on Saturday, August 15, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1278 points)

I know mor ehorn players that have had hernias than trumpet players. Any brass instrument takes the same amount of air and pressure to produce the same given note.

Hernia? sugget percussion maybe. To play any wind instrument you need to support properly. If he plans on playing loud and supporting well then don't play a wind instrument. If he chosses to play timidly and not play assertive or support properly, then my suggestion stands - pick a non-wind insturment OR go to a good surgeon and get the entire abdomen lined with metal mesh. Then pick what ever he likes the sound of the most.

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    13:53 on Sunday, August 16, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

ekdavies
(208 points)

The lower brass instruments (larger bore tubing and larger bore mouthpieces) take more air. The amount of effort required to provide the necessary air flow is a more complicated matter. This depends on the resistance which in turn is dependent on both the instrument and the mouthpiece. On any brass instrument, higher notes require higher air flow over the lips to cause/support the vibration. The upper register on lower brass instruments - especially Euphonium - require the greatest embouchure muscles because of the large size of the mouthpiece and the difficulty maintaining a small opening between the lips. The alternative of using more air pressure can't be used except for very loud notes because there's little resistance. A french horn has smaller bore tubing and backbore on the mouthpiece (but the same length of tubing as a 4 valve Euphonium) which facilitates higher notes with less effort. In my experience, cornets have significantly less resistance than french horns and most trumpets are in between the two. In other words, you rely more on greater air pressure playing cornet and trumpet than on french horns. (You would come to this conclusion just by watching a few eg jazz trumpet players).

However, I don't think this should relate to a hernia. Its the diaphragm which plays a key role providing pressure (ie support) for the air flow not the outer wall of the abdomen.

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    18:21 on Sunday, August 16, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1278 points)

I like and agree with ekdavies on most everything, but not this time. The diaphram is not the cause of hernias. The diaphram is an autonomous muscle which actually performs 180 degrees differently than most of us are taught in music classes. The diaphram muscle is slender and rests between the lungs and abdominal area. Contracting the diaphram pulls it down and away from the lungs, relaxing the diaphram allows it to pressure the lungs and push the air out.

Hernias are the product of a weak or compromised abdominal muscles group. If you play crosslegged you are more likely to entertain a hernia. If you do core exercises you will strengthen your core muscle group which will help prevent a hernia.

In my opinion most music related hernias are the result of people not using their abdominal muscles properly, especially placing them in a isometric tension hold pattern, instead of allowing them to expand and contract appropriately. Specifically a muscle actively being held at a fixed length instead of allowing it to wax and wane. This is also the same reason for most professional principle position lip tears. I believe the muscle tissues are braided similarly.

If the hernia is going to occur it's going to occur on whichever instrument your freind chooses. So chosse the instrument you like the sound of. Also, if you have health insurance, see if you can talk your doctor into giving you a prescription to physicla therapy and have your physical therapist work with you on good core and abdominal exercises. You may have to word it interstingly to get it approved, but if you go to the doctor and say you want to begin a new EXERCISE program and wish to avoid hernias, and explain that playing a muscial instrument properly is a strenuous exercise you be able to get it approved under the coding of 'begining a health preventive maintenance exercise program'.

Leave the diaphram alone, it does what it does just fine.

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    02:35 on Monday, August 17, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

ekdavies
(208 points)

On re-reading my post, I realise I made at least one mistake: Tuba does pose a much greater risk of a hernia but when lifting it (especially when in a hard case) rather than blowing it!

I'm a traditionalist who was taught that only the diaphragm muscle does any work when playing a wind instrument. Obviously, the other abdomen muscles have to move but this movement does not stress them. Consequently, a hernia which has healed should not be a concern. If your friend has been advised not to blow up a balloon then (s)he shouldn't play a brass instrument otherwise providing the instrumental teacher is sensitive to muscular concerns then playing should be fun!

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    21:10 on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Fredrick
(180 points)

I don't mean to discredit anybody, but I can't pass up the one-in-a-million opportunity to actually use what I learned in school.

The diaphragm pulls air into the lungs. It pretty much never pushes it out; since it would have to be in the relaxed position to push air out, I can't easily see how it's possible.

The abdominal muscles push air out because when the lungs are full, the abdomin is expanded so when the abs contract (it may not be very hard, but they do), they squeeze the abdomin back to normal size, forcing air up and out.(qoute my choir director: "NEVER take a deep breath by lifting your rib cage" there are no muscles in your shoulders and rib cage that compress the lungs, so it is futile. Although, for really deep breaths some expansion of the ribs is necessary)

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    00:00 on Thursday, August 20, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

granny
(132 points)

I think this guy should steer clear of all brass. How about flute, percussion or a string instrument? Double bass would sure be fun.

Val

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    11:08 on Thursday, August 20, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JOhnlovemusic
(1278 points)

(Sarcasm here) Yeah, flute. There's an instrument that's easy to play and requires no need to support. What are you thinking?

Seriously now - Val, I do like you but . . . I even require my string players to use their abdominal muscles and I require them to breathe like my wind players. Playing ANY musical instrument is a physical activity and should feel like it. And a good, well trained physical therapist can teach you to use your muscles correctly. I see too many musicians with problems with their stomach, intestines, back, and neck and all because they are not conditioned properly and/or have horrible posture.

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    02:50 on Sunday, August 23, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Alverindo
(15 points)

ok..
I respect all your opinions. My friend knows the risks. It's correct, proper use of the diaphragm and muscles is a factor in avoiding reccurence of hernia. He must be careful.
I understand what you said especially EKDAVIES' comment that french horn needs lesser air pressure, high notes are easy to get than on the trumpet. I think this is favorable to him.
By the way there is a common existing problem- financial. He just emailed me yesterday. He said buying french horn is costly, and it seems he wants to include the alto sax as one of his options for budget reason and some other reason.
So, Pls give your additional ideas on what ekdavies said, and include the alto sax on our discussion.(I'm afraid of its tigth embouchure needed.) Thank to all of you.

<Added>


...many players say alto needs tight embou. Pls compare it to brasses like french horn and trumpet

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Re: French horn or trumpet. Which of the two gives lesser resistance.    15:18 on Sunday, August 23, 2009 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

ekdavies
(208 points)

I play a little alto sax (as well as a few other instruments). Unlike double reed instruments, single reed instruments generally require less air pressure than brass instruments. On high notes there is a need for a faster air stream and slight pressure on the reed from the lips (supported by the jaw on clarinet but not usually on sax).

You should be able to get a student Bb single horn for less than the cost of a student alto sax but a I would expect a F/Bb double to cost more.

The playing opportunities and types of parts played are really very different, and I would enocurage thought about the types of ensembles you friend could play in and let this drive the choice of instrument. For instance, alto sax is much more often used as a melodic instrument than horn. Obviously, alto sax is not a traditional member of an orchestra just like french horn is not played in a brass band or a big band.

   

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