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JimMillen
(324 points)
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Dear Forum Members:
When I first came onto this Forum, I chose to use the word "Professional Flutists".
Others have taken issue with my "position".
When, whether in previous posts, or those posts that I will offer in the future, I refer to those flutists whom have acceded the highest in stature, whether symphony flutists, recital artists, or recording artists, I wanted to make one thing perfectly clear: they are professionals.
That is NOT to say there are NOT a LOT of very talented "amateur" flutists out there --- some of whom might well be Members of this Forum.
It is merely intended to impart that anyone who has been appointed (any chair) in a Major Symphony is, obviously, a flutist of great accomplishment. The same goes for recital flutists, and recording artists.
IF you think I'm providing "mis-information" --- then TRY to get a "job" as Principal flutist of the Philadelphia Orchestra, or the Boston Symphony, or the Chicago Symphony, etc. You'll be up against some 400+ applicants from around the globe who are VERY talented. Talk about competiton!
As far as being a recording artist --- do you think Deutsche Grammophone, London Recordings, RCA, etc., is going to sign you to a recording contract? You're up against Susan Milan, Marina Piccinini, James Galway, and on and on.
NOT to burst anyone's bubble. Practice HARD and just be the best you can be. You CAN aspire to become the member of a symphony --- you can become a recital or recording artist!
I just wanted to clarify what I'm talking about, when I refer to my former teachers --- all of whom were symphony members. AND JUST WHY I RESPECT THEM AND THEIR TEACHINGS, when other members of this forum (obviously) do NOT.
When you're a member of a MAJOR symphony orchestra, you're the BEST. And, for the future, that's whom I studied under.
Four differnt symphony flutists (four different orchestras).
Why? Because I'm THAT good? NO --- because I got lucky. In a time (50s' and 60s') when you COULD study with a symphony flutist. That's NOT true, anymore. Don't believe me? E-mail Jeff Khaner (Philadelphia Orchestra) --- e-mail Don Peck (former, CSO) --- e-mail James Pellerite --- e-mail ANY "name" flutist you CAN name, and let's see where you go.
I will use TWO words in my future posts: "Professional" --- and "Amateur". When I say "Professional, I MEAN PROFESSIONAL.
Tired of all of the "professional" flutists on this forum taking issue with my word: "professional". I respect their opinions and teachings, even if no one else does.
Jim Millen
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Alieannie
(536 points)
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I have to say, I'm not really sure what the point of your post is, or why you chose to start a new thread for this.
| When, whether in previous posts, or those posts that I will offer in the future, I refer to those flutists whom have acceded the highest in stature, whether symphony flutists, recital artists, or recording artists, I wanted to make one thing perfectly clear: they are professionals. |
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Well, sure.
| That is NOT to say there are NOT a LOT of very talented "amateur" flutists out there --- some of whom might well be Members of this Forum. |
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Sure again.
| It is merely intended to impart that anyone who has been appointed (any chair) in a Major Symphony is, obviously, a flutist of great accomplishment. The same goes for recital flutists, and recording artists. |
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Aren't all three of your opinions stated thus far obvious?
| IF you think I'm providing "mis-information" --- then TRY to get a "job" as Principal flutist of the Philadelphia Orchestra, or the Boston Symphony, or the Chicago Symphony, etc. You'll be up against some 400+ applicants from around the globe who are VERY talented. Talk about competiton! |
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Again, this is pretty much common knowledge. Obtaining a symphony position requires the candidates to be of the higheste caliber and the supply far outweighs the demand. One chair opening may have dozens to thousands of applicants/auditioners.
| As far as being a recording artist --- do you think Deutsche Grammophone, London Recordings, RCA, etc., is going to sign you to a recording contract? You're up against Susan Milan, Marina Piccinini, James Galway, and on and on. |
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Who was asking about becoming a recording artist? Did I miss that tread? Anyway, recording artists are, in your terms, the best. But someone has got to get those jobs... And there are many excellent, outstanding flutists who put recording out on lesser known labels, or go the indie route. Doesn't mean they're not "as good". Maybe they just weren't as lucky????
When you're a member of a MAJOR symphony orchestra, you're the BEST. And, for the future, that's whom I studied under.
Four differnt symphony flutists (four different orchestras).
Why? Because I'm THAT good? NO --- because I got lucky. In a time (50s' and 60s') when you COULD study with a symphony flutist. That's NOT true, anymore. Don't believe me? E-mail Jeff Khaner (Philadelphia Orchestra) --- e-mail Don Peck (former, CSO) --- e-mail James Pellerite --- e-mail ANY "name" flutist you CAN name, and let's see where you go.
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This is all getting a bit redundant. Yes, if you play in a major symphony, you're the best of the best. However, I think you are missing a key point here. There are talented players that would be considered the best of the best, and play equally as well as a symphony flutist, who don't want to play in a symphony orchestra. That doesn't mean they aren't the best of the best, it simply means they've had different vocational goals and aspirations for themselves. Some of the best of the best may either play in small ensembles, which is not a major symphony, or devote their love and attention to teaching, often on the collegiate level. There are also some extraordinarily talented freelancers out there. And what about those players who were good enough to audition for that top chair and just missed the cut? They're equally as good; they could have been ill the day of auditions, or made ONE mistake. Politics can also sometimes be a factor, and has no bearing on anyone's playing ability.
Yes, symphony flutists do sometimes have their own private teaching studios. If you outright email one of them, well yes, you may not hear from them. Oftentimes, it's who you know... and that's how you get into so-and-so's studio. It doesn't mean they don't teach privately. Also, I can think of about a dozen off the top of my head that play in an orchestra and teach at a conservatory or college/university.
And yes Jim, we all know and have heard multiple times you've played for over 40 years, have had four teachers, and all four were from MAJOR symphony orchestras.
I will use TWO words in my future posts: "Professional" --- and "Amateur". When I say "Professional, I MEAN PROFESSIONAL.
Tired of all of the "professional" flutists on this forum taking issue with my word: "professional". I respect their opinions and teachings, even if no one else does. |
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I think you are being a little too narrow in your use of professional. Professional is anyone who gets paid, makes a living out of playing. To me, even making a partial living from playing would let me grant them "professional" status, though I'm sure you'll wholeheartedly disagree.
Who is taking issues with you on what constitutes a professional? Look it up! If it's your means of livelihood, then you're a professional.
I think it's really sad that, it seems, the only flutists who are worthwhile to you are the ones who have been lucky and talented enough to get their name on a symphony roster of a city larger than 100,000 people.
When did, oh I don't know.... the MUSIC stop being so important? Isn't that the whole point? Just because you're not as good doesn't make you any less important and special.
This whole elitism thing has got to go.
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kippsix
(333 points)
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I'm not sure I really understand your motivation for starting this thread.
You appear to take on a "tone" that is somewhat offensive to many people on this forum. At the very least, it closes the door of communication. Why?
The number of times you bring up who you have studied with is presented in a "bragging" manner. Why?
Now you make this post to put people in to or exclude them from a category....in such a way that is downright snobby.
What is your motivation?
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tim
(240 points)
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Regarding the assumption that all major orchestral principals are the best of the best:
The Texas Flute Society hosted an exhibition for Muramatsu of America and Ervin Monroe performed a Mozart concerto. We were all kind of shocked by his playing. It was like he didn't prepare it, or he just didn't care. I have trouble believing he's just that bad of a player, given his position. But at least after his performance we all felt better about OUR playing. I could totally be the Detroit principal (lol).
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Klarinet
(95 points)
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I think you are being a little too narrow in your use of professional. Professional is anyone who gets paid, makes a living out of playing.
I agree with the above statement. The original posters classification a profession flutist is so narrow it would literaly limit the number professionals to a just a few.
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mbrowne1229
(382 points)
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ive studied under both ervin monroe (former principal DSO) and jeff zook (current piccolo of DSO). very easy to contact for lesson, however expensive. ive also taken a few lessons from rhonda larson (im sure you know of her). once again, easy to contact. ive only come across one person who would not teach outside of her position. most of these people dont get paid much as an orchestral musician and are willing to take on a few extra bucks.
just my cash for the day.
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Broque2
(5 points)
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Not to change the subject, but the last Detroit Symphony concert I attended this current season still lists Erv Monroe as the principal flutist.
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mbrowne1229
(382 points)
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he said he was retiring... im not sure if he officially did, but i thought he did. ::checks the dso website:: they say he still is. hm. i was almost positive he did retire...
oh well.
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