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mbrowne1229
(435 points)
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i realized today why i cant seem to play for longer than 3 measures without needing a breath. i breathe out through my nose when i play. i cant seem to stop it on my own free will. i never used to do this, either.
how can i stop this?
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Micron
(1362 points)
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The first major step is acknowledging it.
Just make yourself do it. You can also practise all day without the flute.
It will get progressively easier, until it is totally automatic in no time. But watch out for times when you are under stress, when you may revert.
One thing for sure is that nobody else can make the required effort except you. :-)
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leighthesim
(232 points)
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you could always try using a nose clip (like you get for swimming) to keep your nose closed so you can breath out through it, i sing though my nose so i have to hold my nose when i sing ussally and it works
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jose_luis
(1373 points)
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I am not sure if I understand the problem: You mean that air escapes through your nose when you play? And the nose clip would be used to close the nose? (or may be is an adhesive clip that "opens" the nose airways?)
If used to close, you have to learn to block the nose airway, the same you should be doing while swimming to avoid water entering through it. It is done somewhere in the back of the throat; I do not know the anatomy of it but I find it completely natural and easy, but it could be otherwise for you.
I cannot imagine someone playing in public with a nose clip, (close or open type) so you should better practise and learn to correct it without any clip, IMHO
To Leigh: One thing I have been taught in my singing lessons is that the upper airways must remain as open as you can, as the sound should be directed that high to "resonate" with the internal cavities within the head. There are discrepancies about this, as my other professor says those cavities and usually lined internally with secretions and cannot resonate at all.
But I believe singing with a blocked nose airway is anyway contrary to the standard sing technique. Have you been told to do this by a teacher?
Now, if the clip is used to open the nostrils, then my big apologies. My understanding of English may be failing me today...
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jose_luis
(1373 points)
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I have an idea: practise the blocking of the nose airway by slowly and carefully immersing your head in the tub and concentrate in avoiding water entering (no clip, of course). You should find the trick; I cannot explain how I do this, but I suppose it's simply learnt.
If you can't, try this: immerse the head while letting some air escape through the nose (water cannot get in). Then, still under water, stop the air slowly but at the same time stop the water entering. I think this could be a way to learn the trick, as it seems to me that the same part that you will use to stop the air is the one used to block the nose airway and that is the one you need to control. If afraid of doing that under water, you could try in your room simply letting air through the nose and then stopping it to see how it works.
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msiscrm
(8 points)
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Sorry-but I can't even understand how one can blow out one's mouth and nose at the same time. In swimming, I was taught to blow out my mouth to keep water from going up my nose (was never too successful at that.) I thought using both the nose and the mouth to breathe at the same time is not a natural process, not easy to learn to do. Of course, we can train our bodies to do things like this...
I remember in high school having Rafael Mendez give a demonstration of how he could sustain notes indefinitely by breathing in through his nose while blowing his horn. I'm sure this was something he worked at for years to get it mastered.
I think you may just may just need some top notch breathing exercises!
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jose_luis
(1373 points)
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Sustaining notes as described is done with "circular breathing". The player uses a small reserve of air in the mouth + cheeks to keep blowing while quickly inhaling through the nose. Not easy to master
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mbrowne1229
(435 points)
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i blow OUT through my nose. and ive yet to find someone who can do the same easily.
i used to be a competitive swimmer. in swimming, to keep water from entering the nose, we were taught to breathe out through the nose.
my breathing used to be excellent, but recently ive noticed a lot of problems, and this is evidentally why. perhaps im on my way to circular breathing.......
but i dont like the way that sounds.
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Bilbo
(844 points)
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How about trying to play long tones pp. Use less breath force (support) and focus the tone to a small embouchure opening without tensing up the lips. Relax more.
Some people blow like madd and they basically blow their lips open with the air pressure.
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jose_luis
(1373 points)
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Excuse me for asking this, but how are you so sure that you are breathing out through0 the nose while playing? Have you placed a mirror under the nostrils (you need someone helpful) or have you used other method?
There is lot of air around the embouchure, possibly some turbulence too and I believe it may be difficult to be sure that some air is actually coming from the nose.
It may be a stupid comment, as such a condition cannot go unnoticed, but some sort of harelip could produce this effect.
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Micron
(1362 points)
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"But I believe singing with a blocked nose airway is anyway contrary to the standard sing technique."
I do a fair bit of singing. Much to my surprise, if I block my nose, it does not seem to affect the resonances. I'm not sure why. In spite of common teaching, perhaps most of the resonances are actually in the mouth and throat cavity. Try it, using vowel sounds only.
However if I sing with my throat almost blocked, then most of the sound is actually coming out my nose, and is rather nasal, like American speech. (Perhaps Americans don't notice this :-) In this case, if I block my nose as well, then the sound can only come out that almost blocked throat channel to the mouth. Of course, singers are taught to sing with their throat OPEN, not almost blocked, for quality, resonant sound. (Unless you are singing with a "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" whine, or singing Chinese opera. Unless I am mistaken, in many Asian cultures nasal = submissive, Aden an important tool of communicating servility) If the throat is open, then the sound comes out the most direct route, which is the mouth.
Consonants are a different story altogether. Some REQUIRE the nose to be open. Take for example,"m". We close our lips and rely on a humming sound. To make a sound, the air must come out SOMEWHERE. If we block our nose as well, then cannot utter an "m".
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Micron
(1362 points)
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"Sorry-but I can't even understand how one can blow out one's mouth and nose at the same time. "
That is the reverse of the normal default if we try to take a breath as fast as possible. It goes into both the mouth and nose at the same time, but we barely notice the nose part because the channels are much narrower so very little air goes through that route.
For blowing, I think we mostly have a choice, of one or the other or both.
Try this experiment.
ENSURE THE THROAT IS OPEN. Look in a mirror... Put a finger across your slightly open mouth. Block the nose with the other hand. Now attempt to puff in and out, with your cheeks relaxed. Because your throat is open, air goes to and from your mouth, so you will note that your cheeks puff in an out. Now allow a tiny opening from one nostril. Remember not to block your throat. You will now see your cheeks puffing in and out while at the same time, you can hear air going in and out a nostril.
Therefore you can blow out both at once. We are just more conscious of the larger flow of air out the mouth.
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Micron
(1362 points)
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But note that we (most of us anyway) can do the cheek-puffing thing while blocking the nose with some structure around where the mouth meets the throat and nose.
Perhaps this is what mbrowne1229 needs to practice doing.
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