breathing
 

breathing

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breathing    19:46 on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Account Closed
(491 points)

i realized today why i cant seem to play for longer than 3 measures without needing a breath. i breathe out through my nose when i play. i cant seem to stop it on my own free will. i never used to do this, either.

how can i stop this?

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Re: breathing    14:51 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

leighthesim
(471 points)

you could always try using a nose clip (like you get for swimming) to keep your nose closed so you can breath out through it, i sing though my nose so i have to hold my nose when i sing ussally and it works

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Re: breathing    16:07 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Account Closed
(3248 points)

Hey, that is a great idea Leigh!

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Re: breathing    16:17 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes
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Re: breathing    16:36 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I am not sure if I understand the problem: You mean that air escapes through your nose when you play? And the nose clip would be used to close the nose? (or may be is an adhesive clip that "opens" the nose airways?)

If used to close, you have to learn to block the nose airway, the same you should be doing while swimming to avoid water entering through it. It is done somewhere in the back of the throat; I do not know the anatomy of it but I find it completely natural and easy, but it could be otherwise for you.

I cannot imagine someone playing in public with a nose clip, (close or open type) so you should better practise and learn to correct it without any clip, IMHO

To Leigh: One thing I have been taught in my singing lessons is that the upper airways must remain as open as you can, as the sound should be directed that high to "resonate" with the internal cavities within the head. There are discrepancies about this, as my other professor says those cavities and usually lined internally with secretions and cannot resonate at all.

But I believe singing with a blocked nose airway is anyway contrary to the standard sing technique. Have you been told to do this by a teacher?

Now, if the clip is used to open the nostrils, then my big apologies. My understanding of English may be failing me today...


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Re: breathing    16:43 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I have an idea: practise the blocking of the nose airway by slowly and carefully immersing your head in the tub and concentrate in avoiding water entering (no clip, of course). You should find the trick; I cannot explain how I do this, but I suppose it's simply learnt.
If you can't, try this: immerse the head while letting some air escape through the nose (water cannot get in). Then, still under water, stop the air slowly but at the same time stop the water entering. I think this could be a way to learn the trick, as it seems to me that the same part that you will use to stop the air is the one used to block the nose airway and that is the one you need to control. If afraid of doing that under water, you could try in your room simply letting air through the nose and then stopping it to see how it works.

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Re: breathing    18:07 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

msiscrm
(10 points)

Sorry-but I can't even understand how one can blow out one's mouth and nose at the same time. In swimming, I was taught to blow out my mouth to keep water from going up my nose (was never too successful at that.) I thought using both the nose and the mouth to breathe at the same time is not a natural process, not easy to learn to do. Of course, we can train our bodies to do things like this...

I remember in high school having Rafael Mendez give a demonstration of how he could sustain notes indefinitely by breathing in through his nose while blowing his horn. I'm sure this was something he worked at for years to get it mastered.

I think you may just may just need some top notch breathing exercises!


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Re: breathing    18:29 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

Sustaining notes as described is done with "circular breathing". The player uses a small reserve of air in the mouth + cheeks to keep blowing while quickly inhaling through the nose. Not easy to master

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Re: breathing    19:42 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Account Closed
(491 points)

i blow OUT through my nose. and ive yet to find someone who can do the same easily.

i used to be a competitive swimmer. in swimming, to keep water from entering the nose, we were taught to breathe out through the nose.

my breathing used to be excellent, but recently ive noticed a lot of problems, and this is evidentally why. perhaps im on my way to circular breathing.......

but i dont like the way that sounds.

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Re: breathing    21:57 on Thursday, January 17, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

How about trying to play long tones pp. Use less breath force (support) and focus the tone to a small embouchure opening without tensing up the lips. Relax more.
Some people blow like madd and they basically blow their lips open with the air pressure.

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Re: breathing    02:45 on Friday, January 18, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

Excuse me for asking this, but how are you so sure that you are breathing out through0 the nose while playing? Have you placed a mirror under the nostrils (you need someone helpful) or have you used other method?

There is lot of air around the embouchure, possibly some turbulence too and I believe it may be difficult to be sure that some air is actually coming from the nose.

It may be a stupid comment, as such a condition cannot go unnoticed, but some sort of harelip could produce this effect.


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Re: breathing    10:39 on Friday, January 18, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Account Closed
(491 points)

you can feel the air from my nose. i noticed it when i had a stuffy nose due to allergies recently. i was making all sorts of funny noises. im like "that sounds like its coming form my nose" so i played a g and took my right hand, placed it under my nose, and felt the steady stream of air coming from my nose while playing, stopping when i wasnt playing.

i play long tones daily and this hasnt helped at all.

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Re: breathing    01:47 on Saturday, January 19, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Account Closed
(25 points)

I sometimes blow in such a way that when I put my hand under my headjoint I feel the air coming from my mouth!! Maybe you did the same thing?

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Re: breathing    06:58 on Saturday, January 19, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

mbrowne1229,

Are you able to blow up a balloon?

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Re: breathing    10:41 on Saturday, January 19, 2008 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

kippsix
(333 points)

Try sustaining a /s/ sound for as long as you can on one breath:

"ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss"

Keep track of how long you can sustain it, and see if you can beat your own record after a few practices. Then, have a friend/family member do it also and see who can sustain the longest.
This should give you some perspective.

This will help you notice the oral-nasal closure (palatal sufficiency) that must happen while playing a flute.


<Added>

This is a common technique used in speech therapy to help students who have nasal emission due to different reasons, such as people who have/had a cleft palate or palatal insufficiency. I have a student who "snorts" on words that have an /s/ sound, especially an /s/ blend words such as "school". We do this exercise a lot to help him "feel" the musculature that needs to be in place to make an /s/ (which is somewhat similar to the mechanics needed to play a flute - the small controlled air stream).

   





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