I have been talking about circular breathing (CB) with my teacher. She is not enthusiastic about this technique.

She has the opinion that some instruments normally have to breath (most obviously human voice) but also, some winds as the flute, are or should be played with the necessary breaths in the music, as this necessity is a part of it (at least, for music originally written for our instrument).

I am not sure what to think about CB, I believe some pieces simply cannot be played without it (for a solo flute). Even ancient music as "Phantom" (Vivaldi's La Notte) have extremely long notes, (40 secs. in one recording I have) and this is far from what I can achieve in one breath (which is not longer than about 25 secs. for the time being).

- What are your opinions?
- How long can you sustain a note without breathing (say, a p middle D)?

it is not necessary, the breath is part of the music, the music has to breathe, for any instrument...

when I play, I think like a singer..imagine if they circular breathed!

Yes, this is exactly what my teacher says and I agree to the concept. But then, how can anyone sustain notes well over half a minute?

I am not a flute player and would not want to try to circular breathe on flute. But, it can be a useful tool, say you are doing a show and have to hold a note forever while something is happening (or not happening) on stage.

There was a concert last year in my area with James Gallway. He played with some circular breathing and it sounded quite fine.

So, i suppose it is not an absolute requirement, but yes a very good tool.

in 35 yrs of playing, including work in orchestras, pit orchestra ,recording, etc..I have never needed this tool...however, one does need to learn to sustain a note a long time..this is best achieved through long tones and strong stomach muscles..

How long, Patrick, if this question is not too much personal

Also, if the work is for an orchestra, it's generally understood that some people dropping out and joining back in is the norm on long notes - as long as you stagger it correctly and make it as seamless as possible, that is.

I never learned it and never had a problem with long notes.

Again, circular breathing certainly is not required however, it is noted in some Norway papers and journals that teaching advance techniques helps maintain interest in younger students and makes the jump from secondary abilities to advance abilities easier and quicker to accomplish. At the college level and professional level I do think that any advanced technique can give an applicant an advantage in an audition at many levels. There are 20th/21st century pieces asking for a variety of 'special effects' and these special effects will be seen more and more often in the orchestra setting. If you are applying for a teaching position at some colleges you will be required to perform modern pieces and understand the modern techniques. More and more book sare available from top notch professionals about advanced techniques. (Rehfledt -advance techniques for Clarinet, Extended Techniques for the Horn Doug Hill, Extended techniques Phyllis Louke)

I don't play modes much, but I had to learn them in college.
I do teach my students advance techniques; I believe it produces better embouchres and better body dynamics. To circular breathe well you need to have a good, strong , proper embouchre. If your teacher is not a big fan of teaching circular breathing they may not find it worthwhile or they may not know how to do it properly. If you want to learn it you should. Don't dump the teacher as there is so much mor eyou can learn from them, but it doesn't mean you can't learn it from someone else.

I use circular breathing every day, in the rehearsals and concerts/performances. Not out of neccessity but to stay up on it. And when I do need it I have it and I know it will work. Perfect example, last Sunday for Easter services I was contracted to sit in for someone else who had a conflict, the choir director was holding the choir at the end of a big piece, he knows the choir is going to alternate taking breaths, but the directors don't think about the orchestra usually. I was the only one playing my part so I used circular beathing. After the services he made it a point to let me know he observed it and was impressed. Who do you think is now number one on the contract list?

Learn everything you can about your instrument. Then find ways to use what you learn. It is fun and it is good.

Circular breathing is a nice skill to learn. But you need proper embroucher first.

I am more concerned with what I can do with a long tone as opposed to how long I hold it..that said, if I play a group of 4 whole notes together at one count @ 60, the phrase usually goes for 25-30 beats, that is with crescendo and decrescendo...

The lady I am studying with tried to show me a technique to learn circular breathing. It involves a cup of water and a straw. It's a good way to drown on land is all I can say. I am planning on trying to learn just for kicks.

I think I am up to a whole 15-20 seconds as far as sustaining a note. Next week will be my 6 month anniversery for flute playing. I guess it's not too bad.

I believe that there was a long discussion on Galway flute chat on circular breathing a few months ago.

Ouch! I' so impressed about people being able to sustain notes for well over a minute! I think I still have huge heaps of practise to go and ten of thousands of meters (put feet, it would be the same) to swim....
Micron, with that breathing capacity I'm sure you practise apnea diving. Or you should!

This is a technique that I am very curious to learn and practise.

My teacher will not forbid me, of course, but probably she cannot help. I will try on my own or get advise somewhere. I know the trick of the glass of water and the straw, its OK for the first phase. The big problem is not to be able to blow while inhaling, but to do it in an unoticeable way!

I have just tested how long I can sustain notes right now (my previous test was two years a ago (more unenexperienced but two years younger..).

I can play a mp middle D for about 35 secs in my second try. But controlling the air to the extreme makes the note tremble a little and not suitable for a long solo!
I will try again in the afternoon here, because I just came back from swimming and I am a tired and could be short of breath.

as I stated earlier, it is all well and good to be able to hold a note a long time, but remember that the quality, phrasing and color of what you play are paramount...

I still have to try all this, but I think that we flutist have more limitations with this technique that reed players. Oboist, for example normally play with "inflated" (wrd? )cheeks and therefore have more reserve air. Our inhale breaths with CB should be much shorter as our air reserves would last less. It is unprobable you get chocked with such short breaths trough a small straw.

Micron makes some fine points of course.
I've tried to see how long I can hold a tone and with some practice it's about as long as you can hold your breath. My limiting factor can generally be a need for O2 rather than running out of air.
So, one issue is with the size of the airstream. (Smaller but well defined hole that has some height but less width.) The other factor is the amount of breath pressure or support. Some have too much and they either blow their lips apart or the air is wasted in the preiphery of the stream that forms the tone.
So, to do longer notes. I would do these things.
1)Start on a low to mid note A1 is nice.
2)Play softly.
3)Start without articulation. do the poo lip formation.
4)Be relaxed. Sit for this exercise and don't be ingesting any caffeine or high sugar foods or drinks.
5)Take a few deep breaths to get the most oxygen into your system and then a fairly large breath right before starting your long note. Not too large. It gets into the way.
6)I would not rest the arms against the body or have the shoulders bottomed out. These things tend to help push the air out and you really don't need that.
The key as Micron points out is that the airstream needs to be small and focused.

I think that this is a good embouchure exercise for conservation and efficiency of the breath but I wouldn't devote a lot of time to this.
Sitting an holding out long tones for minutes at a time isn't music. Now if you are practicing scales and arpeggios while doing this then all the better.