How different do you blow for a baroque traverso
 

How different do you blow for a baroque traverso

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How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    18:31 on Thursday, March 22, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

My main flute is dead and the cost of a new flute headjoint is too much to bear.

I have an offer for it so I will sell it and I was wanting a baroque open hole flute (they are all open aren't they?) with a single bottom key.

I'm not having much fun blowing it. I can feel loosely for the sweet spot but my embouchure isn't working across the octaves. I lose it, then the flute slips, and then I almost drop the flute when I do fingering. Most problems are with blowing - I get a sizzling embouchure sound which I can correct until I do an octave note. Then I have the same problem again.

Will this get better if I practice? Or is the blow hole just too small for me?

I'm used to larger blow holes.

If anyone has any tips for playing a baroque traverso, they would be most welcomed.

I'm looking at a Rottenburgh model, rather than a Kirst. Anyone got either?

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    16:18 on Sunday, March 25, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

Just to mention that the normal tuning of a Traverso is so much lower than modern tuning that you may have serious problems if playing outside the baroque orchestra.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    16:41 on Sunday, March 25, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

Hi Jose,

Thanks for the reminder.

I know about this - the corps de rechange costs a fair bit, but if I get better at baroque, then I will definitely invest in a second head!

The problem is I'm not making a very enjoyable sound on it. Maybe I need one to practice on, but I don't want to go for a cheap student version, which already costs a lot of money, when I can invest in a proper wooden one.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    16:58 on Sunday, March 25, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I only have a very short experience on a wooden flute end of 19 century I was given as a gift. It has a small blow hole and it is very difficult to get a reasonably not-airy sound out of it. I would love to be able to play the traverso, but I think it is not for me at the time being.
I congratulate you for your initiative.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    18:27 on Monday, March 26, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

Jose - your baroque flute is serviced and not leaking at the tenon or elsewhere?

I find it's very different from blowing with a chimney riser or larger oval embouchure hole. But I don't know if I'm getting very far on it.

I like the softer baroque sound - the holes are smaller than open hole flutes so it is fully chromatic.


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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    06:40 on Friday, March 30, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

Hi, I've performed several time on my Bigio Traverso and the difference is that you may be pushing (supporting) too much. Many teachers/players are telling students that they need more air...blow more and all that and if you do that on a Traverso, you are going to get more air in the tone. You may need to back off and try to play more piano. They were primarily used as a chamber instrument (small audience) before the big move to concert halls.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    09:51 on Friday, March 30, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I tried to reply a couple of times but the computer hangs on this specific thread. I wanted to clarify that I own a end of 19th century flute, simple system five keys and it is of course not a baroque flute. It is not serviced and the keys are practically not working. Even so I managed to have tight enough tenons and I could get a few sounds out of it. I also found that one must blow very softly and expect to get the second octave, a different result that with the Böhm flute. A sweet sound, it is and a little airy but the embouchure required is different and I would need a serviced instrument and much practise.
To repair this instrument it would probably cost more than buying another similar but in better shape, so I gave up fopr the moment.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    15:55 on Saturday, March 31, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

Hi Bilbo,

Does Bigio make Traverso flutes? I've only found head joints. Some are good, but some of the workmanship was not as good as other custom flutemakers.

Thanks for your hints - I think I am swallowing up too much of the embouchure. Because the wood is so smooth without a riser, I cannot feel where I am, and sometimes I slip.

The other thing is my left hand really aches after playing traverso for 20 minutes, but on Boehm I can go for hours. The slender baroque traversos gives me cramp
Jose -

I have the same problem. I think the 8notes sites are too busy and have some kind of server limits.

What kind of 19th century simple flute have you got? I measured my simple flute pads and bought some new pads and just stuck them on with blue tack That way I can work out if it's worth repairing. But it does need a lot of work to be restored,and maybe lengthening the tenon to make it modern pitch. I tried the headjoint and it sounds very clean and smooth - hard to tell until it is restored.

The baroque flutes mostly have 1 key - and are fully chromatic, but not equal temperament for some notes. Some of the notes are shaded, which gives some character to the music.

This is the one I'm thinking of, but it's going to push me:
[img]http://www.soubeyranflutes.com/contents/medias/catalogue/rott.jpg[/img]


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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    15:59 on Saturday, March 31, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

Image isn't showing

[url]http://www.soubeyranflutes.com/fr/catalogue/rottenburgh[/url]

[url]http://www.soubeyranflutes.com/contents/medias/catalogue/rott.jpg[/url]

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    17:22 on Saturday, March 31, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I have not been able to find the exact model I have on Internet. The first flute in the picture here most resembles my model, but not exactly: http://www.oldflutes.com/english.htm

My flute have four sections. Head, Barrel, Body and a long Foot. I will try to post a picture somewhere tomorrow.

Most keys are practically stuck, it is not only a problem of bad pads. I should have to disassembly the keys and make them move freely, but I fear breaking something.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    05:56 on Sunday, April 01, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)

Those simple system flutes look great@!

I have two of these simple 19th century types (German) and the voicing of one is powerful and rich - slight 3rd octave E drift which is not unusual for the era. I feel bad about having to sell them, but I want a decent baroque traverso!

The stuck keys may need releasing slowly by de-rusting. It can take weeks. A technician tells me that it is better to go slow to release them, but I don't know if that's true.

The only affordable traverso I've seen is the Stanesby replica by the Japanese Aulos maker. The head of the factory owns one of the original 10 Stanesby ones and decided to bring it out in imitation ivory (A=415Hz). I tried it and it was very good when I could control the embouchure. When I missed, it made a plastic bottle noise.

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    14:22 on Sunday, April 01, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

I also have a good Bansuri, made in India by a true artisan. Though it is easy to blow and has a nice and sweet tone, the fingering is rather stressing on the fingers because I must stretch them considerably. My hands are suffering already with the Böhm flute so I have not started seriously on the Bansuri. But I hope I will , sooner than later. I love its sound.



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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    17:55 on Sunday, April 01, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)


"Does Bigio make Traverso flutes?"
He made some a few years ago. I believe that mine was made around 1982.

<Added>

I should add that the Bigio flute was a copy of a Friedric Gabriel August Kirst one-key (two body joint) flute c.1780 the joints were for A=415 and 440.
His head sections for a modern flute aren't relevant to this as the intended tone of a modern flute/wood head is not the same as that of a historical replica.
If you have not read the J.J. Quantz Treatise, I'd advise this book.
Quantz explains how much to cover the emb. hole as this is critical to tone production. The finger holes are in line but the embouchure hole is turned slightly back by the same distance as the diameter of the emb. hole.
I would also say that how you hold the flute is important as for tone production and comfort.

How your left wrist is located is important. See the Hotteterre image as most players use something very close to this for the left hand wrist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques-Martin_Hotteterre

The difficulty with forming a smaller aperture for the lips and therefore a clean tone can be exacerbated if one uses too much air support.

Yes, the flute is fully chromatic and composers such as Bach wrote chromatic passages for the Traverso. Playing in tune with a good tone quality is the real issue though.
When I used to practice it in earnest a few decades ago, I recall doing the Taffanel and Gaubert 17 daily studies, the D.S. Wood Studies and I worked up to the Anderseon op. 63 exercises. Now I would have to take a good year to get that level of playing back

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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    15:33 on Monday, April 02, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Tonehole
(48 points)


I also have a good Bansuri, made in India by a true artisan. Though it is easy to blow and has a nice and sweet tone, the fingering is rather stressing on the fingers because I must stretch them considerably. My hands are suffering already with the Böhm flute so I have not started seriously on the Bansuri. But I hope I will , sooner than later. I love its sound.



Wonder what's wrong with the Boehm flute?

I learnt mine in school and still have one. I tried a bansuri and never understood how to reach all the finger holes, especially for the longer ones.


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Re: How different do you blow for a baroque traverso    15:44 on Monday, April 02, 2012 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

jose_luis
(2365 points)

It is not a problem with the Böhm system, it is basically that my hands are growing old (may be faster that the rest of me does)and I have different problems if I practise too much or on some pieces that require some fingerings where I have special difficulties.

The problem with a long Bansuri (and mine is E model and rather long) is that one must strech the fingers a lot. The holes are big designed not to be closed with the finger tips but lower parts of them, something that aggravates the problem because they become "shorter" when used that way.

   





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