Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player
 

Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player

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Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    11:21 on Saturday, February 09, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

I bought a Dana Sheridan gold lip, silver head joint. It's running on a Mateki (tin alloy). Worth 3,000 second hand.

At first i felt it was loads better in sound the the silver matiki head. Now it's lacking.

Having tested a Powell Conservatory 9K Aurumite Flute and an Arista i can see (or suspect) the sounds i like cannot be delivered by a gold lip, sliver head on my Mateki.

Any comments on this? Do you agree or is the limitation my own playing skills?

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    10:06 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

evflute17
(57 points)

Well the lip plate doesn't really affect the sound the flute makes. Really it's the tubing, and the riser as well. If either of them is made of gold the sound is better, more so with the tubing. The sound is made by the metal resonating, and different metals make different sounds. Silver, gold, platinum, etc. If you want a golden flute sound you'll want to look into a gold flute, not gold plated.

<Added>

Well the lip plate doesn't really affect the sound the flute makes. Really it's the tubing, and the riser as well. If either of them is made of gold the sound is better, more so with the tubing. The sound is made by the metal resonating, and different metals make different sounds. Silver, gold, platinum, etc. If you want a golden flute sound you'll want to look into a gold flute, not gold plated.
As for player ability, of course to some extent it is the player. Very good flute players can make even student flutes sound good. I wouldn't worry though. If you think that this flute is hindering you, buy one that will help you grow.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    10:35 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

That ties in to how I feel.

The gold lip Sheridan's performance matches the Mateki silver head joint. Over the full range one is marginally better the the other but overall...nothing in it for me. It may be different for others.

I play solidly but sensitive and I yearn for a sound that a cross between mr Galway and Pahud. The question is how much does a good amature spend...hmmm.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    13:20 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

PS: the nickel body will not help. Looks like a new flute next year.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    19:48 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

evflute17
(57 points)

Well if you're an advancing student, I'd go for any of these.
Azumi( I play the azumi 3000, and these have a powerful sound)
Sonare
Amadeus
Pearl
Yamaha
All of these are have flutes between under between 1000 and 3000
and are all good quality.
Yeah I have never heard of either of the brands you've mentioned and I personally stay away from brands I don't know as much about,ask your private teacher for recomendations as well

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    19:52 on Sunday, February 10, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

evflute17
(57 points)

But if you want a pro flute, I think that you should go for any of these.
Nagahara- galway uses these.
Powell
Haynes
Miyazawa

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    06:48 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

Depending upon your level of flute and your intention, I would not leave the Mateki flute. They are considered a quality company that only delves into one model below pro level.
As for the head joint, it is difficult to pick on short trial a head joint that will advance the student to more expressive playing. As for the material, I would recommend that if it were possible to test head joints by a blind test, then that is the way to go. This means that you can't see the material or know the price of the head joint because psychology has a huge effect on how you play an instrument. I'm not totally in agreement but it is a contention of many that the material (gold Silver) has no influence on the tone, that the cut of the whole head joint, the taper, the shape of the embouchure hole/riser, the shape of the embouchure plate where it contacts the chin and the fall-off of the embouchure plate after the hole has an effect.
I play solidly but sensitive and I yearn for a sound that a cross between mr Galway and Pahud.

What specifically about their tone quality are you admiring? Have you also heard others? Denis Bouriakov(actually recommended by Galway), Mathieu Dufour, Davide Formisano?
What are you doing in your daily tone studies workout that is directing you towards their sound?

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    07:00 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

JButky
(657 points)

The sound is made by the metal resonating, and different metals make different sounds. Silver, gold, platinum, etc. If you want a golden flute sound you'll want to look into a gold flute, not gold plated.


Sound is not made by metal resonating. This is a huge misconception. Metal resonating/vibrating can interfere with performance. It is the air column itself that vibrates. There is no such thing as a gold sound or a silver sound, etc., since it is such a subjective description. There is only "your" sound. Lot of factors determine exactly what that is, you cannot simply select a metal and have it sound like that metal, whatever that is..

Joe B

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    09:36 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

celtic_flute
(6 points)

For that matter, why limit yourself with metal. Try a wood headjoint on your instrument and see what effect it makes. One of the more interesting flute and headjoint makers is Alexander Eppler in Seattle. Felix Skoronek, flutist for the Soni Ventorum spent almost a lifetime promoting the use of wood flutes and worked a lot with Alexander in providing design advice.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    13:24 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

Bilbo,

The thing thats informing my drive to question is my ears. I listen to recordings carefully. Historically i aspire to the clarity, control and volume of James. But more recently i recognise Pahud's style better suits some pieces or parts of pieces. It's there combination of skill and musicality expressed through there instruments that's setting my aspirations at the moment.

I will hunt out the others players on itunes as the names are new to me.

Many thanks.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    13:26 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

Evflute17,

I think my skills are moving to pro so the second list fits the advice i have had recently.

Many thanks.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    13:34 on Monday, February 11, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

JButky,

That makes sense. I would expect expensive metals will have boundaries. But because they are expensive I'd expect more care when they are made leading to a better result. Perhaps that is the real factor in this debate.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    11:39 on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

Bilbo
(1328 points)

The thing thats informing my drive to question is my ears. I listen to recordings carefully. Historically i aspire to the clarity, control and volume of James. But more recently i recognise Pahud's style better suits some pieces or parts of pieces. It's there combination of skill and musicality expressed through there instruments that's setting my aspirations at the moment.

I will hunt out the others players on itunes as the names are new to me.

Very good response but I would advise listening to as many live players as you are able. The sound is different in live performance. There are several reasons for this aside from some of the more generally known and obvious.
I don't expect this to be an influential statement for you but if I may also suggest that one wants a lot of varied experience in their life-long pursuit of flute tone. That as mentioned, wood tone quality is something to be appreciated. Also some of the more influential and popular metal Hj makers simply make their models as "easy to play" designs that appeal to those who simply want the easy route. These almost never develop much in the player's tone production abilities.

To further agree with Joe B. sound is not made by the 'material' resonating. This is true and we shouldn't expect that more expensive material is going to produce a better flute. The maker automatically assumes that anyone who is going to purchase a gold flute (Or gold plated) is going to be willing to spend a bit more for it. This doesn't equate into better craftsmanship or design. I also wouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that a very expensive flute will hold it's value if you decide to sell it. This is not why we should ever invest in a good flute.

Sound is not influenced by the 'resonance' of the material it is however, influenced by the reflection of the sound waves within the resonating tube. This is an important distinction as far as I'm concerned.

<Added>

Also, I should mention that Pahud uses a Brannen flute /Sheridan Head section. so what is lacking in your Dana Sheridan head?
I only studied one of his performances recently and that is a "live" version of Syrinx that has been uploaded.
He has nice control in his recording but it is fairly thick with reverb. This often helps to smooth out any imperfections that may exist.

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    13:08 on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

celtic_flute
(6 points)

Bilbo-
You bring up some good points. Listening to a "live" performance is better than any recording. I once had a music professor who refused to listen to any recording of Jascha Heifitz. "Why?", I asked him. Because he's too perfect, no one can play like that! I feel the same about James Galway, especially his new recording of the Khatchaturian Flute Concerto.

You mentioned vibrato, too. When I was stationed in Europe, one of my friends studied flute with a teacher from England. The teacher refused at first to take him on because the way vibrato is taught and used is completely different from the it is used in the U.S. (My friend studied with him in the end).

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Re: Gold Lip Plates - Lacking or Failings in the Player    16:22 on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 Vote for this post Vote against this post 0 votes

P900BAT
(17 points)

Really good debates.

I have played awood flute as my teacher (Royal Phil) allowed me to play one for a few weeks to mature phrasing and tone by playing soprano songs expressively on one. You have prompted me to think of that option again. Many thanks.

Reference my current flute I have two observations. Experiences tell me a body with a B foot and split E would be more rewarding but not critical at this point. The Dana Sheridan HJ is overall good but not as good as my much cheaper phosper bronze Jack Frazer (UK headjoint). That could be a failing in skill but i suspect it's just not the right headjoint for me. It's powerful, deep and pure but not balanced at the top when compared to my old flute. I tried an Arista recently and found it easy to play but not challenging enough. I enjoyed the Powell because it was challenging, hard but overall I sensed we were playing as one - music flowed.

This chat forum's helping me understand how I evaluate next steps. I suspect my view on the problem will change a lot ove time. Cheers.


   





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