So, I'm going to buy a horn within a month. I don't really know what is good. I'm using a school horn now (it is a king). I'm a Junior and I am taking this to college.

My band director says ideally, I should get a Holton Farkas ($3000+). He says, most all Holtons are good and so are Yamahas. I have no idea! I am prepared to spend a lot as I certainally have the mullah to cover it (working part-time at a bank certainly has benefits). What is good?

Oh ya, and I'm looking at WWBW for a general site (I buy it locally eventually - I live in Missouri, USA)

You should visit a good music shop and try a few horns including Yamaha (667), Conn (8D, 9D, 11D) and Holton (178,278, 180,280). You may find the Conn 8D too much ie the large bore may require more breath and control. You also need to think about unlacquered vs lacquered and silver plated and whether or not you like detachable bells. If you were in Europe then you would also consider a Paxman 2x or an Alex 103. I would avoid descant or triple horns as these are a little specialist. You may find the Yamaha needs less servicing than a Holton - at least some of these are not as well built and the valves need attention every year or so. If you have a good technician nearby this wont be a problem.

Obviously, you don't have to buy it from the same shop you try them at and you may find some-one like music123.com offers the best price. Don't be tricked into paying $3,000 for an intermediate horn. You should be able to get a better horn for that budget from the best resellers.

IMHO any-one looking for their first double horn is better off buying a Chinese/Taiwanese horn which are probably as good and much less expensive that Holton or Yamaha Intermediate horns (although they dont hold their value well).

So what is the difference between lacquered, unlacquered, and silver coat(besides the look)?

I would like a detachable bell so I could have a gig bag (over your shoulders), but that is just preference and it adds like a couple extra hundred dollars.

Thank you for your opinions, I need many

Lacquered always look the best - at least until the lacquer wears a bit after a few years. You avoid some wear by using gloves or shields (especially for the left hand). I found the nickel plating on the valves keys on my new Holton didn't last more than a few months. Hopefully, their Silver plated horns are better. Some people claim that unlacquered horns sound better because the lacquer inhibits vibration. With hindsight I should have asked for a demonstration because I'm sceptical! A natural brass needs more cleaning but (obviously) never shows patches of lacquer wear!

If you are going to buy locally, make sure you know how much (including shipping etc) the same horn would cost purchased from a large but reputable Internet reseller. Make any local retailer justify why his price is higher!

Ya, our band teacher says that he can usually get our local salesman to match or go down in price than the internet retailers.

By the way, what do you think of gold plated mouth pieces?

I use a gold plated rim for my PHC mouthpiece (see http://www.horncups.com). The lips find this slightly smoother than a standard rim which is important to me because the size of my lower lip means that the rim is set into it. I also play BBb Bass with a standard Dennis Wick mouthpiece or - especially in cold weather - with a Kelly mouthpiece. You can also get acetate rims which are hypoallergenic but I have no experience of these.

You just can't go wrong with a Holton Farkas (179, 180 or higher). Very consistent quality in new horns as well as old, used ones. However, everyone I know that has a Yamaha (600 series) LOVES it. If you are average sized or smaller, you'd probably be happier with a Holton, but if you are above average, you'd do fine with a Yamaha. Holton Farkas horns are more tightly wrapped so smaller people are usually more comfortable with them. Yamahas are more open, larger in diameter & can cause some neck & left arm strain for smaller people. But both horns are great. Conns are great horns, but have had a rather inconsistent history when it comes to quality -- some years good, some not so good. You really have to know what you're doing to buy a used Conn. I've heard, however, that the Conns made in the last few years have had all the bugs taken out. Accent French horns, if you can find one, is a very good line. Nice tone & very responsive.

The horn professor of Oklahoma state wrote a very good article about buying a horn. I can't remember the title of it, but if you searched for "buy French horn" you could probably find it like I did. There are quite a few good articles about buying horns on line.

After reading all of them, I settled on a HOlton Farkas 179 as it was mentioned in every article as being consistently a good horn for a good price.

If you can get the detachable bell, go for it. I wish I would have.

Silver vs brass -- I've read tons of info on that & what it all boils down to is this: No one can tell the difference in tone. Not even electronic devices can find any measurable differences. So whether you buy gold colored brass or nickle is a personal preference. I bought silver (HOlton 179) because it's harder, more durable & I'm a klutz!

Valerie in Tacoma, WA

PS, I'd buy a lacquered horn. It will look better longer. And it's another one of those things like brass vs silver -- when blind folded, no one can tell the difference. So you might as well have a pretty shiney horn, huh?

Valerie in Tacoma

"B stock" has nothing to do with the horn per se. This is part of a quality rating system that WWBW uses for all their products. It has to do with whether the product is in perfect condition, slightly used, damaged, etc. They have "A stock", "B stock", "C Stock", etc. If you thoroughly search their website, you'll find definitions for these terms.

I once purchased an "A stock" Yamaha 667. It was badly damaged, still playable, but not worth what they were asking. I kept it at my home for 30 days then shipped it back to them & had to pay the shipping both ways. But it was worth it to me to find out if I could handle the large open wrap of a Yamaha 667. I found out I couldn't. I gave me neck & shoulder pain. I settled on a Holton Farkas 179 because it's the most comfortable for me to play for hours a day. I never get shoulder or neck soreness with my Holton, even if I play 4 hours in a single day.

Large throat means it's wider in the flare going to the bell. Large throat instruments as expected to have a bigger sound, but are considered a little harder to control & require a lot of air. If you have a small hand you will have difficulty playing stopped horn on a large throat horn, but it's no big deal if you buy a tranposing stop mute. That's what I have to do because my hand is too small to properly stop even my medium throat Holten 179.

I can't really tell you if you will find much difference between a 179 or a 279. They're both great horns for college students & intermediate level players.

Valerie in Tacoma

So, jsphweid, the suspense is killing me. Did you buy a horn yet? Do tell us about it!

Lordy, Joseph, my name is Valerie! ha ha! Those prices that salesman quoted sound a little fishy to me. You should be able to get a Holton Farkus 179 or 279 for about $2800. That's what I paid for mine & that's about what you would pay for them from on line and at major music stores. The actual sale price is always a lot less than the "list price." Don't buy anything unless you know the exact model & the asking price up front and you can compare it to what's on line. If he shows up with a HF 179 or 279, & says he'll sell it to you for around $3000 (or less), then that's okay. If he wants much more, then tell him no thanks I can get it for less somewhere else. If I were you, I'd have a list made up of horn models & prices from the internet, then ask him to compete with those.

I'm the one that writes about Balanced Embouchure all the time. The Farkus method is fine except for one glaring deficiency -- the embouchure. That open apeture/smiling pucker will seriously limit range & endurance. I'd recommend you continue reading the Farkas book, because it's loaded with lots of valuable information, exercises & warm up material, but ignore what he says about embouchure. The Farkas embouchure only works for Farkas & nobody really knows how he could do what he could do. Farkas was a unique phenomenon that no one else can really mimick successfully. The Farkas smiling pucker/open apeture embourchure as described in his books has been hampering horn players for decades. Jeff Smiley's method is written for trumpet but it will work for French horn, too. I'm living proof! Jeff Smiley has a support forum for people who need it. I get lots of help there. Trumpet players are really cutting edge.

Valerie

OK, well he didn't show up with a 179/279, 180/280, it was a Holton Regency by Leblanc. I have never heard about it before. I'm about to do research.

My band teacher thinks it is a step below the Farkas model. He said I would have to pay a lot more for a pro Farkas, but he doesn't really specialize in french horn at all... he is a trombone dude, so that doesn't really mean a lot.

I really want a Farkas 279, 280 or something (farkas with a detachable bell!). If a regency is a step bellow, it makes absolutlely no sense for it to cost $1000 extra. Wierd...

Thank you,

Besides, what is the difference between the farkas 277-281 models? They all cost the same (on wwbw.com)

The Holton website is [url]http://www.gleblanc.com/instruments/frenchhorns.cfm[/url]

I didn't find any reference to a Regency. This may be an old model I'm not sufficiently familiar with the Holton history.