I have recently purchased an F horn, and a beginner's book.

I am finding that the fingerings for the B-Flat horn generate the notes I want more than the fingerings recommended for the F horn.

Does that make sense? For example, for the D below the staff, my book says that the F horn fingering is just key 1 while for the B-Flat horn it is recommneded keys 1 and 2.

I have an F horn, but the D comes out better with keys 1 and 2 instead of the recommended key 1.

Actually, all of the notes come out better with the B-flat fingerings instead of the F fingerings.

Is this weird? Should I keep on praticing the F fingerings or just go with the B-flat fingerings?

Lost in Virginia,
Todd

The obvious possible confusion is that your thumb valve configuration is reversed from what you expect. When I press the thumb key on my horns the length of tubing is reduced changing to the Bb side. On two of my horns this can easily be reversed so that pressing the thumb lever would move from Bb to F.

More obscure opportunity to be confused is that when you use the Bb fingering on the F side, you actually play in concert pitch. In other words, on the F-side when you play G (in the stave) it sounds middle C on the piano. However, if you use the Bb side fingering for written middle C below (1+3) you can play the G with that fingering and it sounds middle C on the piano! Another example: D above middle C has Bb fingering of 1+2 using which you can play A on the F side which will sound D on the piano ...

I don't have a trigger. Only the three valves.

The notes I'm trying to play are the C below the staff up through the C in the middle of the staff.

Only fingerings that seem to work at the B-flat fingerings seem to work. I guess if it works . . . it works.

I just don't understand why I can't get a G on the staff with no fingers, but with the first key, it comes out fine.

Mabie I should get a tutor . . .

You'll probably find that at least a few lessons will be a worthwhile investment because it will allow you make progress faster and use appropriate techniques.

If the F fingerings are giving the wrong notes, then I can only assume either you have a Bb horn or there's an issue with how you are checking that you have the right ones! If you show any horn player you know the horn (or e-mail me a picture), then its easy to confirm if its F or Bb.

On an F horn you should be able to play C E G C all open (sounding F A C F on the piano)with the G C below open but the E below requires 1+2. For the Bb horn, the F A C F above can be played open with the A below with 1+2. I wouldn't expect a beginner with no experience of playing brass instruments to play a top F (sounding Bb) easily.

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my posts. It means a lot.

I think we may be on to something. You stated that

On an F horn you should be able to play C E G C all open (sounding F A C F on the piano)with the G C below open but the E below requires 1+2.

I am using an chromatic electronic tuner to verify what note I am playing. Is it safe to assume that when I "think" I am playing the open low C (below the staff) I am actually playing an F?

This would explain why my E with the F-Horn fingering comes out as an A on the tuner.

I played the b-flat marching horn in high school (20 years ago this May) and always wanted to pick up the concert horn at some time. I just bought one and am getting re-aquainted.

I've also started Cello . . . base clef is going to take some getting used to!

Thanks again!

You need to sit down with your band director or a private instructor to clarify these issues. It is impossible to play a D below the staff with 1+2 on a single F horn. It sounds to me like your tuner is tuned to "concert pitch" which means that a "C" on your horn is an "F" on your tuner; an "E" on your horn is an "A" on your tuner, your horn's "G" is "C" on your tuner, etc.

(Transposing from key to key is a skill all horn players eventually need to develop.)

If you have a concert pitch tuner, it's notes WILL correspond to the notes on you cello because a cello IS pitched to concert pitch. A cello "C" is a "C" on your tuner, etc.

A music teacher will be able to show you how to do a simple note check to find "C" on your horn. You will be able to find it by playing the simple major triad on open horn: C,E,G,E,C. Once you know what that sounds like, you'll always be able to find the right pitch on your horn.

Good luck.

You can always check google.com for sites/images of advanced fingering charts, but you'll want to try and learn them with the basics.

G# or higher, use the Bb valve... Since it's usually easier since the partials when on F Horn get very close.

Also, I was told by a horn musician during a horn camp that if you play a D, no matter what octave, it should be Thumb 1 2, rather then just 1 (near staff), or 1+3(for the bass)... for some reason. Something to do with the tuning.

Just don't get crazy with alternate fingerings. One of the judges questioned me after an audition about if I used the B Flat valve much, since apparently I was holding my thumb down and using mostly Bb fingerings through the entire audition... Oops! (Bb tends to be very sharp, especially on the horn I have)

In essence on all brass instruments low D when played 1+3 is sharp. Trumpets tend to have 3 valve slides which allow them to flatten this while compensating Euphoniums and Tubas have additional tubing that is used.

On French Horn it is possible to leave the 3rd valve slide pulled out a little extra, but this obviously flattens other notes you might need. However, the pitch can also be changed by embouchure changes.

Middle D should be in tune with 1st value on the F side. I can't think of a good reason to use the Bb side in that register.

The D above (written 4 line treble clef) is normally not played on the F side of a double horn as from around Bb up most players would use the Bb side simply because its shorter tubing means lower and more secure harmonic are used for these notes.

For completeness, there are notes such as top G which one might expect to play 1st on Bb side which are more in tune when played open.

Obviously, instruments vary but it should be possible to have the Bb side in tune in the upper register and the F side in tune in the middle register even on a student horn. The lower register tends to be used infrequently and with odd exceptions is best played on the F side.

Todd, did you ever get those figerings figured out?
Valerie