Re: Bell position: on lap or not?

    
Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    18:52 on Sunday, January 10, 2010          

FrenchHornPlayer
93

I let my bell rest on the edge of my knee with the bell facing kinda of a 45 degrees to the right behind me so that I can get my sound projected more. I like that way better because you don't tire your arms with holding it up. LOL I'm lazy.

<Added>

MormHorn, I know what you mean. None of the band directors I've been under know anything about horns, so I learned some of the things wrong. Like hand position, fingerings, embrochure stuff, how to sit and posture, even tounging. LOL There needs to be MORE band directors that have had experience with horns cuz it really screws us horn players learning to play.


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    20:43 on Sunday, January 10, 2010          

Val_Wells
(222 points)
Posted by Val_Wells

<<I learned some of the things wrong... embrochure stuff...>>

Oh yeah, I know all about being taught the "wrong" way, when it comes to the embouchure. A university horn professor messed up my chops. It was a trumpet teacher who straightened me out. Unfortunately there are still a few horn professors messing up students' embouchures by telling then what they are supposed to "look like" when they play. The emphasis should be on what they "sound like," not "look like." See my blog.

Valerie Wells
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    00:02 on Monday, January 11, 2010          

zoarhorn
(4 points)
Posted by zoarhorn

Much like mormhorn stated, when I started playing horn in the seventh grade, I had no teacher other than the band director. His guidance was mainly in helping me find the correct starting pitch. When I got to high school, I got my first horn teacher, and I had several horn teachers while in high school through college. At no point was there any discussion of holding the horn in any way other than the Philip Farkas prescribed way (Farkas, 1956) "with the bottom edge of the bell resting on the outside of the thigh".
It is interesting to note that Farkas describes this as the "new method" of holding the horn. He reasoned that the advent of the double horn and the heavier gauge brass used in the modern horns necessitated supporting the horn on the thigh. There are several other things of interest here. First, in the picture used to demonstrate the holding position, the bell appears to be on the outside edge of the thigh to such a degree, it is difficult to imagine that it is supported solely on the leg. It's almost a hybrid on leg/off leg position, Second, Farkas describes the right hand as "all important". It could be surmised that using the leg for support could allow a player to give more consideration to the right hand. Third, Farkas states that the conception of horn tone had changed from bright and clear to dark and covered. Farkas theorizes that holding the horn on the thigh makes the tone darker and more mellow. In Darin Sorley's "About" section in Sorley's Horn Shop, he states that he obtained Philip Farkas' Geyer horn which was made in 1933. It would be interesting to know when Philip Farkas made the change from the brighter sound of the Geyer to the Conn 8D sound.
To satisfy my own curiosity, I wanted to see if there was any other written or visual evidence from about the same time period concerning how to hold the horn. For a brief period of time in the 1950s, James Chambers collaborated with Reynolds to produce the Chambers Model Contempora horn (Contempora Corner). A brochure (James Chambers and his Reynolds french Horn) was produced for the horn's production run, 1958-61. In a section titled "Playing Position", the description and justification of the playing position is very similar that of Philip Farkas above: bell on right thigh; modern double horn weighs more; rids tone quality of "undue brilliance". Like Farkas, he warns against letting the bell point towards the body as it would make the tone too dull. It is unknown whether or not Chambers actually wrote what is in the brochure, but there is a photograph of Chambers playing for a group of hornists at a clinic, and sure enough he has the bell on his thigh.
If you look at some of the photographs at Richard Martz's "C.F. Schmidt" website, you can find a photograph of John Barrows that appears to show him resting the horn on his thigh. However, if you look at some of the earlier photographs, such as Luigi Ricci of the New York Philharmonic and another of the New York Philharmonic horn section, you will see a horns off the leg approach to playing position. Likewise, if you look at the photographs of Eric Hauser in his method book "Foundation to French Horn Playing: An Elementary Method", you will notice that he holds the bell well off of the leg. The caption reads, "Correct Position for holding instrument, away from body, being supported principally by left hand, the right hand being inserted in the bell". Resting the bell on the right leg is identified as the "Incorrect Position". The photographs showing the horn held off of the leg seem to be from the 1920's through the 1940's. In the 1950s there would appear to be a movement towards having the horn rest on the leg but still away from the body.
Granted this was a long time ago and times and practices have changed - for the better, I think. I only wanted to point out that while resting the horn on the leg might have been an American development, I don't think that it was from laziness. Although I was taught to place the horn on my leg, I started holding it up because it hurt a vein on my leg (old age I guess). I liked the sound I got when a bigger sound was needed but I still put the horn on my leg when a more subtle sound was required. Also, I would think that holding the horn on or off the leg would follow the lead of the principal horn player.

"About." Sorley's Horn Shop - SorleyHorns.com. Web. 10 Jan. 2010. <http://www.sorleyhorns.com/about.htm>.
"C.F. Schmidt." Dick's Horn Stuff. Web. 10 Jan. 2010. <http://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Schmidt/cfschmidt.html>.
Farkas, Philip. Art of French horn playing A treatise on the problems and techniques of French Horn playing... Evanston, Il: Summy-Birchard, 1956. Print.
Hauser, Eric. Foundation to French Horn Playing, an Elementary Method. New York: Carl Fischer. Print.
Welcome to Contempora Corner! Web. 10 Jan. 2010. <http://contemporacorner.com/brochure_jchambers.html>.


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    00:13 on Monday, January 11, 2010          

Val_Wells
(222 points)
Posted by Val_Wells

Another wonderful post from zoarhorn! Thanks!
Valerie


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    15:35 on Monday, January 11, 2010          

FrenchHornPlayer
93

Val_Wels Thank you for the information My band director's wife helped me today on a solo competition peice (Mozart's Horn Concerto No. 3) and even though she's a trumpet player, she was able to help me ALOT in the short span we had for homeroom. I've been trying to go for the embrochure position that "sounds good" not "looks right". It's been working pretty goo so far. I'll check out your blog somtime sooon!


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    17:20 on Monday, January 11, 2010          

Val_Wells
(222 points)
Posted by Val_Wells

I LOVE Mozart's 3rd. It's probably my favorite horn concerto. It's so perfectly hornish! Which movement are you doing?

Valerie Wells
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    17:02 on Tuesday, January 12, 2010          

FrenchHornPlayer
93

I'm doing the 1st movement in Eb.


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    17:49 on Tuesday, January 12, 2010          

Val_Wells
(222 points)
Posted by Val_Wells

wow! That's the tough one! I wish you all the best.

Val


Re: Bell position: on lap or not?    15:34 on Thursday, January 14, 2010          

FrenchHornPlayer
93

Thanks It's pretty dang tough compared to the stuff I'm used to LOL


   








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