They called us back this morning and they need to fix a few things (one of the keys leak) and stuff before we can go try it and the tech person won't be there until Monday.. so we'll probably get it on Monday evening or Tuesday..

I recently bought a pearl and I love it.

I personally don't like yamahas... they remind me of crappy school instruments. :-\

Anyway... Pearl's have good response, and the pinless construction saves you from some common problems, especially if you're planning on playing the pearl for a marching band season.

Yamahas certainly are not crappy instruments, even at the most basic level. Actually, they produce some of the most widely respected student flutes of any company in the world. As for the pinless mechanism, while it can limit certain problems, it can also be more difficult for flute techs to work on, which can up the price of maintainance and repair down the road. Mechanisms with pins have worked just fine for 150+ years. Assuming you give your flute the proper care, whether you have a pinless mechanism or not, you should not have many problems.

btw...what's so hard about repairs on the pinless mechanism? I take apart and clean, and fix things on my pearl, and it has never given me a problem.

-Dennis

Well the rod setup is different in order to facilitate a pinless mech. Perhaps I used the wrong word when I described it as more "difficult" to work on...."time-consuming" might have been more accurate. As you've noticed, Dennis, it's entirely possible to work on one of these, but depending on what needs to be done, the pinless mechs can make for more work. Sorry for any confusion!

They do make it more work, but not too hard. I personally do not like the pinless mechanism at all or the way any Pearls are designed. IMO, Yamaha makes better flutes than any of the non handmade line of Pearls.

my piccolo is an armstrong and I really like that too. I don't know much about Armstrong flutes, but my picc was knocked off the bleachers during marching band season (I was !***!ed), and I sent it in to the shop and it plays like nothing ever happened.

Well, I've never taken apart a non-pearl flute...I can take down this flute in no time flat, and put it together just the same...maybe it's just cause I'm used to it, but I bet it would take me more time to take down a non p'less mech. flute at this point. I guess you couldn't say that a generalization is okay of that statement due to the fact that every tech. is different, and personally...if you like the p'less mech (which I do)...then it's worth it to me to pay a little more for the tech. to occasionally see it, than not be as happy with something else that didn't have it. I'm not mad or anything, but there are more than likely repair techs that don't get bothered by it either. Just MHO as usual.

-Dennis

then it's worth it to me to pay a little more for the tech. to occasionally see it, than not be as happy with something else that didn't have it. I'm not mad or anything, but there are more than likely repair techs that don't get bothered by it either.

There are techs that charge more for pinless??? Why? It's not more work.. I can understand people being a little freaked out the first time they have to take apart a Pearl with a C# trill key, but that's about all..

I can see charging more for flutes without regulation screws because that's more work, but because it's pinless? So Brannens are a problem and the left hand section of some older powells too I assume??? Any tech worth their salt shouldn't have a problem working on any flute of good quality.

You wouldn't have any problem taking apart a traditional mechanism either if you've taken your Pearl apart.

Joe B

ive always thought the pinless mechanism was much easier to work on over the pinned mechanism... unless the keys were bent from a student who didnt give a hoot about their instrument. then it was a bear to work on. but i thought the pinless mechanisms made things much easier.

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btw, i wanted to put my opinion on the split E on here since the opening post mentioned the split E.

personally, i like them. i think its a neat invention to make the high e sound much more in tune. it has the advantage over the donut in making some trills sound like there wasnt something in the instrument (ive found that some trills on my flute with the donut are nearly impossible to play with a good tone or with the right notes, even). i think that you should try the same instrument with and without the split e to determine if youd really like it or not. do i agree with the pricetag to add on a split e when ordering a flute? no way. almost $600 extra for a little bar over $15 for the donut (i get a discount, lucky me). but if the flute you want has it and you didnt like the model without, then i dont see any reason why you shouldnt get it. i found that the opinions on the split e is about 50/50... try it first before you decide against it.

I have exactly the opposite opinion of Split E's. Depending on how they're constructed, they can actually noticeably effect certain trills, and in combination with an Inline G, can actually cause the mech to bind. It's entirely possible for most players (and most flutes) to produce a high E without a split E. My personal opinion is that one should learn to play without such gadgets (same goes for a C# trill, additional rollers, or most other options for that matter), until you're comfortable doing so, and then you can have them added. This makes such gadgets a convenience rather than a crutch. Just my $.02, though.

The upper end Yamahas aren't anything like school instruments. Now, I'll grant you that they are stiff initially, but after a few months of playing, they become very fast and smooth. Me? I have one. It serves as a basis for whatever headjoint I want to play, since most of the sound in a flute is the headjoint. The body is mostly a means to alter the headjoint's pitch, so being sturdy and having an accurate scale is key - most of the rest is marketing, to be honest.

So my philosophy is to avoid the bling and go for a good mechanism for not a lot of money. I prefer U.S. and Japanese made of course. Of the Japanese made flutes, Yamaha fits the price-point that I'm happy with, especially since they are easy to find used. Second place would be Nomata or something similar if it isn't used.

http://www.nomataflute.com/about.htm
Basic story - several of Yamaha's top designers made their own company. Nomata's team made the Yamaha EC headjiont, which is actually a very good hadjoint. So they have the street cred, IMO, to back their claims up. wwbw sells them - it's only a tiny bit more money than the Yamaha 500 series.($1895) Basically you get the 600s mechanisms and options in a 500 style body (for a bit less money). I'd give them a look, but WWBW seems to be the only place to try them.

Muramatsu is also a great choice, of course - their lower-end models are great. There also was a small group that split off from them as well, but their flutes, while better, are kind of pricey last I checked.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a great instrument today - and honestly, why pay the boutique prices?

Oh - unless it's standard, avoid the surcharge for the split E and other nonsense.

I absolutely love the pro Yamaha flutes! (And the student 221s too!) If I wasn't playing on the brand that I do, I would be playing on a Yamaha 800 or Julius Baker model. I like the way the older ones feel and respond better than the new ones, but I don't like the scale on the older ones. I don't think even a very nice handmade costly headjoint can change that. I really like Japanese flutes a lot, but do better with American made flutes because I prefer the scale they use better. I tend to run into problems with intonation on Japanese flutes. That is just me though.

I would not bother with a split E either. More hassle than anything if you ask me. Sure, it may be more easy to get that high E but by the time you are looking for an upgrade on flute, you should not need it. Your embouchure should be stable enough. If you can't get the E out without that split E than there is a problem with either your flute, or you embouchure, plain and simple.

Kara,

So which scale is it that you actually like? Traditional, Cooper, modified Cooper, Bennett?

(cooper scale being a misnamed scale meaning attributed to cooper..)

Joe B

Now, I'll grant you that they are stiff initially, but after a few months of playing, they become very fast and smooth.

Confused by this statement too. Are the mechanisms slow and rough to start with? What exactly happens that "they become very fast and smooth" from just playing over a few months?

Joe B