new flute for a penny pincher

    
new flute for a penny pincher    20:12 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

mycrazylovee
(19 points)
Posted by mycrazylovee

well, here's the scoop. i'm possibly getting a new flute, but the problem is my budget is only about 2K-3K. the flute i have right now is a gemeinhardt 3SHB limited? and frankly, it's a [insert explicative here].

one of the options i was thinking of was buying a pro headjoint with a relatively inexpensive body. problem is, i'm not sure which ones are mechanically sound, meaning if they'll last me a good number and not flake out on me. (of course i'll definitely be on the prowl trying them out). i also wanted to know if there were possibly any other options.

any input would be great, thanks! =]


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    20:32 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

AluraCM
(1 point)
Posted by AluraCM

try powell


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    21:24 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Dennis
(587 points)
Posted by Dennis

you won't get half of a powell for 2-3K. Definitely try out lots of flutes. Is this going to be the flute to take you through your years of study, or are you looking at upgrading a few years down the road again?

-Dennis


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    21:26 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

You won't be able to get a handmade Powell for your budget, but you may find a Signature series or Sonare (a division of Powell) for that amount. For the money you have, I would look at Azumi, Sonare, Amadeus, Yamaha, Jupiter, Emerson, DiMedici, Pearl, Brio, Muramatsu, and Trevor James. You may find that one of these suits you fine without swapping the headjoints, but if you decide you want a to put a pro head on one of them, they're all at least decent quality (some, such as Yamaha and Muramatsu are even a step above the others and have very reliable mechs that should last for many years). You might even consider just putting a pro head on the Gemmie body you have now (I don't know what kinds of problems you've been having, or what your musical goals are, so that may or may not be feasible). In any case, before making any purchases be sure your current flute is in good repair...If it hasn't been to see a tech in the last year, it likely needs some work, and when you get it back it may be much more satisfactory than it is now.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    21:39 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

you won't get half of a powell for 2-3K


As Chris mentioned, you can get a Powell Signature which is a wonderful flute! Now the Sonares... well I would never want to put them even in the same catagory as a Powell, the only thing Powell about them is the headjoint.

I would also look into Altus or a Miyazawa 102 or 202 as well as Muramatsu and Yamaha. If you have 3K to spend, I wouldn't put it toward a more machine intermediate flute.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    21:55 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Plekto
(423 points)
Posted by Plekto

http://www.wwbw.com/Nomata-Series-II-Flutes-i159627.music

This is essentially a Yamaha 500 series with 600/800 series options and quality. The maker was one of the top designers at Yamaha and started making his own flutes. The scale is apparently a bit better than the Yamaha, closer to a Modified Cooper. And... less money than the Yamaha 500. Win-win.

Drop a good headjoint on that and enjoy. Oh - the company will also special make options like inline with closed holes and such or other key/option combinations not listed - there's a real person to talk to.(nice guy, too) If you want solid silver, the 3 series is probably your best bet:

http://www.wwbw.com/Nomata-Series-3-Handmade-Flutes-(B-Stock)-i345848.music

Click on "regular" in the pulldown menu. $2995 for a handmade flute comparable to a Yamaha 800(except for the plated keys - merely because of durability issues/doesn't make silver keys)

Another option is this:
http://www.mateki.com/
Virtually the same story - guy who worked for Muramatsu decided to make his own flutes. And this seems to be a fantastic flute from what I hear, though the price is a bit higher.(about the same as a basic Muramatsu - $2800-$3000)

Other than that, you're seriously looking at a used upper-end flute which may play only a bit better due to the headjoint. It's a very much YMMV proposition, though.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    22:36 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

Other than that, you're seriously looking at a used upper-end flute which may play only a bit better due to the headjoint.


I seriously doubt that you'll be able to find any top of the line flutes for 2-3k, but I have to say that a 6k flute will play significantly better than a $2500 flute. There certainly is a point where the amount of additional money you're paying far outweighs the benefits you're getting, but the 2-3K range is certainly not where that starts happening. What do you mean by a YMMV proposition, though?


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    22:47 on Wednesday, August 29, 2007          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

I seriously doubt that you'll be able to find any top of the line flutes for 2-3k, but I have to say that a 6k flute will play significantly better than a $2500 flute.


Oh, I don't know about that Chris. Patrick has a Simba that could outplay a gold flute, so I have heard.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    08:35 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

tim
(252 points)
Posted by tim

I'd also add the Sankyo CF-201, the Altus 807/907 and the Miyazawa PA-102/202 to your list. All excellent flutes under $3K. My primary flute is a Powell Signature, which I couldn't be happier with. Unfortunately, they've gone up in price, closer to $4K.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    09:14 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

Patrick
(1743 points)
Posted by Patrick

it really does have to do with the headjoint, my current Haynes was bought for a song and a dance ($3,500)but the original head is quite mediocre, as are many of the heads from early 1950's Haynes, but when I got my Jack Moore head, it sounds like a vintage gold Haynes...


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    16:24 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

mycrazylovee
(19 points)
Posted by mycrazylovee

thanks for all your help~

basically after this year, flute's just going to be a hobby, which is why my parents and i can't justify spending anymore than 5K for a flute.

a lot of the flutes you guys have listed are carried by carolyn nussbaum... and i live about an hour from her shop, so i'll definitely be going over there.

and i also had another question. when it comes to yamahas and pearls, when do the models become more handmade and less machine made?


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    16:40 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

tim
(252 points)
Posted by tim

I bought my flute at Nussbaum. They're very friendly and have one of the best selections in the country. But don't let them try to sell you a gemstone crown, foster extension, etc., under the premise it will make you sound better. But if you want rock in your crown because it's pretty, then go for it. I wasted a bunch of time with them putting different crowns on my flute and telling me it sounded different, when it cleary didn't.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    17:03 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

Tim, when I was trying out different heads at the Powell factory they kept changing the crowns around insisting that one was different than the other. It is a bunch of hog wash! I have a gem in my crown because I thought they were very pretty. If someone tells you that it changes your sound by putting a pretty gem in it, then I would tell them to get their ears fixed. I set gemstones into crowns and a lot of people (seriously) ask me which gemstone produces which sound on the flute. lol! I tell them that whatever sound they want to beleive it makes, then that is what it will be. All the gimics are enough to make me gag!

Carolyn is a very nice person and very helpful, but the only downside I would say it that some things are higher priced in her store than a lot of the other flute stores.


Re: new flute for a penny pincher    20:21 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

To Mbrowne, you seem to have misinterpreted the idea behind my last comment. One of the major differences between a 2-3K flute and a 6-8K flute is the amount of hand work. Most flutes in the 2-3k range still maintain a significant amount of machine work, whereas the 6-8k range is where most companies start selling their entirely handmade flutes. Handmade flutes incorporate design and construction techniques that make them superior to machine made flutes both in terms of sound (which pertains mostly to headjoint design), and in terms of scale, mechanism construction, etc (which pertains mostly to body design). In any case, all the examples you cited to "prove your point" rely solely on your own experience, and another player may have exactly the opposite experience. I did leave out the word "usually" in my last post, so I can see how you misconstrued my intent, and I apologize for any confusion, but in most cases, a 6k flute would outplay a 2k flute, assuming both suited the player in question. As I mentioned, there's a point where the additional price outweighs the additional benefits, so I am NOT saying that a more expensive flute will necessarily be better....Just that the better designed flute will probably play better.

On another note, different crowns can indeed make a difference to how the flute sounds/feels, though it may or may not have anything to do with the materials involved with the crown. It's already been shown that crowns of different weights, and sizes can have an impact on a flute. If you have a crown with a stone of lower density than another (a denser stone would weigh more than one of the same size with a lower density), or a gold crown versus a silver (gold weighing more), or a hollow crown versus one that is solid metal/wood/whatever, it can affect the flute. If you have one that is deeper (i.e. it runs further down the head tube toward the cork), or contacts the tube more snugly, this can also matter. The difference a crown makes is minimal in comparison to changing heads, and is most evident to the player rather than an audience (the "feel" of the instrument changes more than the sound), but to completely discount stone crowns, or any other crown changes makes little sense, IMHO. I'm not saying I buy into the idea that different stones make a noticeable difference to how a flute plays/sounds, but different crowns certainly have the potential to do so.



Re: new flute for a penny pincher    20:36 on Thursday, August 30, 2007          

Plekto
(423 points)
Posted by Plekto

I just don't agree. The thing is that other than a bit of fitting of the keys(soldiered vs drawn tone holes, mostly), there's just no way that a human can do better than a good machine. (though many makers use pretty poor machinery to be honest in this price range)

Simply put, 90% of what you are paying for above 3-4K is the name and bling. I've heard pros with a $3000 flute that make your jaw drop and people with gold, handmade, fancy $20,000 flutes that don't sound better for all their trying and money.

IMO, consider the body and headjoint as two different purchases(unless you find a headjoint/body combo that you love that is - it happens).

- The body you want to be solid silver if the budget allows for it and machine made to keep the scale correct. Though, in a pinch, plated is just fine.
- Keys/action should be where you really make your decision. Plated is fine and saves money as well, provided the maker is making them as well as the solid silver ones.
- Ignore the headjoint. This is the main difference between, say, a Yamaha 500 and a Yamaha 800.(easily 80% of it) Just plan on getting a proper one later.

Done this way, you can pummel most high-end flutes for as little as 3-4K.


   








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