Well, here I go, again, sticking my nose into where it's not wanted. I was told "not to post, again".

But --- I did research previous threads about gold flutes and found nothing that addresses Tracy Harris' playing, nor the words from Powell.

For those who have deep pockets and are interested in purchasing a gold flute, here are two links that might help:

By the way, I do not endorse either link. I'm only trying to present (both) in a fashion that will help. Here they are:

The first link comes from Powell:

http://www.powellflutes.com/workshop/workshop_t2/tech.asp

The 2nd link comes from Tracy Harris' playing.

Her flute is a Yamaha heavy Wall, 14K 892 Julius Baker Model Flute with a “K” Cut Headjoint.

Here's the link to listen to her playing on a Yamaha gold:
http://www.pacificcenterforadvancedstudies.com/tracyharris/

If I messed up on either link, my apologies --- I'll do it over again, if you cant find it. Hope this helps.

Regards, Jim



<Added>

Sorry --- I did give you wrong HTML to listen to Tracy Harris performing on her gold flute (Yamaha, heavy wall, 14k 892 Julius Baker model with a "K" cut head-joint.

Here is the correct link to listen to her playing:

http://www.pacificcenterforadvancedstudies.com/MP3s/SoundI/04.mp3

This subject is dead.

Powell's marketing blurb is nothing we haven't heard before.

What is Tracy Harris' playing supposed to prove?

Answer: YOUR listening to it. (Did you bother?) You'll hear a Yamaha "certified" artist at work.

This is NOT a "rehashed subject". IF you read my post, neither Powell nor Ms Harris' performance represented the sound of the gold flute at work, in PREVIOUS threads.

This brings currency to an "old" post --- wherein neither Ms Harris' playing (a representaion of the gold flute at work), nor the words of Powell.

Did you take the time to go to either link before you posted your response.?

I don't mind if someone complains that "this is a previous" post --- but it wasn't properly addressed --- nor, is it current.

I'm sorry you don't appreciate my "thread" --- but many others will, when deciding whether or not to purchase a gold flute. It has to do with the metal construction of the flute.

Your latest thread: "Prelude" --- had a lot of responses. Yet you never took the time to read the repartee between jose_luis and Bilbo. NOR, jump in and answer --- nor thank. I think it's called "character".

You need to READ these things before you "dismiss them" as reduntant or unworthy. Please take the time. And LEARN.

Are you "so far advanced" in your playing that you can't learn from posts: current, "old" --- or otherwise?

Then, you must be the principal flutist of the Philadelphia Orchestra. (Stand aside, Jeff Khamer --- Tim is taking your job). Stop with the hate mail --- learn and READ.

Jim

Answer: YOUR listening to it. (Did you bother?) You'll hear a Yamaha "certified" artist at work.

Which is all well and good, but does absolutely nothing to tell anyone about the qualities of gold, nor any other material.

This is NOT a "rehashed subject". IF you read my post, neither Powell nor Ms Harris' performance represented the sound of the gold flute at work, in PREVIOUS threads.

Actually Jim, it is a rehashed thread. It's been addressed over and over again. The fact that you refuse to use the search function (or are unable to do so competently) does not mean it's new ground.

This brings currency to an "old" post --- wherein neither Ms Harris' playing (a representaion of the gold flute at work), nor the words of Powell.

And exactly like the "auditions" thread, you had nothing to contribute, and your "advice" was completely unsolicited.

Did you take the time to go to either link before you posted your response.?

Even without going to them, it's obvious that you have no basis on which to be doling out advice, and as such have no standing to be creating threads to "update" older threads. When YOU have some real information to share, rather than quotes and links, then maybe your advice will actually have some value.

I don't mind if someone complains that "this is a previous" post --- but it wasn't properly addressed --- nor, is it current.

You clearly have a lot of reading to do if you think the topic of materials hasn't been fully addressed on this forum. In any case, what you deem to be "properly addressed" doesn't matter much given your dubious standing on this forum. In any case, if you don't care about, why write such a verbose rebuttal defending your actions? I think the answer is that you think you've hit upon another controversial subject, and once again are attempting to stir up trouble.

I'm sorry you don't appreciate my "thread" --- but many others will, when deciding whether or not to purchase a gold flute. It has to do with the metal construction of the flute.

Frankly, Jim, most people here don't appreciate your threads, and we've made that clear to you. Nothing you've presented is going to be the least bit helpful to anyone looking at gold flutes. A recording of someone playing a gold flute tells nothing about how that flute would play for someone else, nor what sounds can be produced with it.

Your latest thread: "Prelude" --- had a lot of responses. Yet you never took the time to read the repartee between jose_luis and Bilbo. NOR, jump in and answer --- nor thank. I think it's called "character".

No, Tim didn't need to thank other members endlessly because he's not trying to build up his post count to give the illusion of legitimacy to new members of the forum like you are. In any case, there's no way for you to know whether Tim read Jose-Luis' and Bilbo's conversation. Once again you're making claims you can't possibly support. As for character, you're the last person who should be talking about that. You can't even keep a promise to behave yourself for more than a few days, and have endlessly attacked the members here. Don't try to preach to others on topics that you clearly don't understand.

You need to READ these things before you "dismiss them" as reduntant or unworthy. Please take the time. And LEARN.

Jim, there's nothing to learn from you, except how NOT to conduct oneself on a forum.

Are you "so far advanced" in your playing that you can't learn from posts: current, "old" --- or otherwise?

Tim never said that, nor do I think you'll see him (or any other real member of the forum) do so. Once again, you're trying to steer us off into a tangent that you can use to cause havoc.

Then, you must be the principal flutist of the Philadelphia Orchestra. (Stand aside, Jeff Khamer --- Tim is taking your job). Stop with the hate mail --- learn and READ. Jim

Once again, Jim, the day you learn to take your own advice (i.e. learn and read, rather than open your big mouth), you might actually be able to speak on such matters. Until then, you're just a fool babbling on endlessly. We're tired of your games, and we can all see through you, so just give it up.

I have heard some pretty bad flute players sound really bad on expensive gold flutes...if any of you want a CD of me playing on Jupiter Student flutes, message me privately and I will send one

Thanks, Flutist06, you did most of my responding for me.

To answer your questions, Jim, yes I went to your links. Micron has posted similar links from manufacturers regarding the tonal differences of metals, followed by links of double blind studies disproving the audience's ability to differentiate between them.

If you really want to help support your cause that gold flutes sound different, please provide us with a link to a study where the audience can clearly tell the difference between the flutes without seeing them.

I will agree that there is a market for gold flutes because individual players like the feel and response and other qualities of certain metals. But this is very, very subjective, and the idividual player is where the differences probably stop. My guess is that if you blindfold a person and give them flutes made of different metals, the weight of the flute might be their only indicator of the metal.

Again, what is the recording of Tracy Harris supposed to prove? Can you tell which flute Galway is playing in his recordings? Not even he can.

And also, yes, I read all the responses to the Afternoon of a Faun thread. I stopped replying because my initial inquiry had been answered, and the thread then veered off into a tangent where I felt I had nothing to contribute. I seriously doubt any of the other posters in that thread were offended that I didn't thank them for each and every one of their replies.

I wish that I cold find the advertisement that listed their Platinum head joints as having enough power to play over any orchestra....like that's going to be a good musical attribute.

On another forum a person who just got a 20K gold flute wrote that her flute now sounds so much better that the other instruments are now in tune also.
Well it's here:
"That flute is willing with ease to do anything the flutist wants and with a
plethora of coloring and tones. In the orchestra its sound projects through the other instruments and we may say
above them. The most important is the tuning. All problems with oboe, strings and the other winds cease to exist! Its tuning is perfect and its scale is about perfect virtually needing no or infinitesimal correction.?

And here......I thought that only the First Act flutes play perfectly in tune all the time. This flute probably not only plays itself, it also cleans itself and crawls back into the case when it's done.

Sorry folks, I shouldn't have posted.

All I did was send members to a couple of specific links that I didn't find when I did a search.

Just thought that Powell's very complete description of the properties of gold would be of interest. And it did not appear to be a marketing effort on their part.

It's just that when I come across something interesting, I always think other members might like it, too.

As far as Tracy Harris' playing --- I really meant to send members there to listen to her marvelous rendition of Boehm's Polonaise.

And Tim, you're right --- your orginal post did go off on a tangent, but I really enjoyed the repartee between jose_luis and Bilbo (and Scotch) and just thought you'd find it interesting, too. I learned a lot from that post.

Sorry about my latest post --- but I am keeping them down to a mild roar. (You haven't heard from me in awhile).

I'm getting better. (At least my doctor said I am).

Jim

Jim,
I don't have a problem with this Gold Flutes/silver/paper mache' or whatever discussion. When I do, I just move on to something else. It is a common belief that the metal makes for a better/different sound. This goes back probably to antiquity. Which tibia from which animal? A mastodon from the mt.s near Cologne is the best I say....
Poe Poem: "The Bells" is a good example of the description of metal sounds. Realists believe no diff. Artists (who can afford precious metals) say yea. Flute makers grin and make flutes....

Wow, what entertainment. I finally have some time to waste and read this stuff today. I don't take this forum seriously anymore, you just can't. It is such a shame what it has become.

Hope everyone has been having fun for the holiday season. Yesterday was my Birthday and I got a Vacuum cleaning. I love vacuum cleaners, yes I am crazy that way. When you have eleven animals that shed, you would love them too. Oh and I did get a pair earings to go with my Christmas dress. How exciting! They are amethyst and diamond. Little diamond of course, I can't afford that stuff! Are you crazy! Besides I blow most of my money on flutes. lol!

Is everyone keeping busy? Who is has gigs for Christmas this year? I have three this year. It almost feels like stealing as I love to play the flute anyway and then I get money for doing it. How awesome is that? Anyone else feel this way?

Okay, this was a very random post. Sorry for that. I am feeling a little weird today. Hopefully it will lighten things up around here.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

You crazy flute friend,
Kate

Whoops.. I mean I got a vacuum cleaner, not cleaning. Although... a cleaning would be nice. I think I will put my husband to work and do that. *Grins*

Oh no!!! Who vacuumed up the bunny? DAVE!!! A bunny just popped out of my vacuum! Nah... he just got his but stuck on the end of the hose. What a powerful vacuum cleaner my new one is!

Bilbo - I agree with you on most of what you said.

It's a lot like wood on a guitar. There's a slight change in the overtones(which computer analysis will back up), but it's very much a personal preference thing. Like what brand of orange juice you like.

That's of course for the metals themselves, from a scientific standpoint. Flute makers, though, have almost all altered the alloys, geometry, and thickness so that you get the same exact sound out of all of the major metals now.(or too small to hear). Now, this wasn't exactly true 50 or more years ago when they didn't compensate for this nearly as well.

But now, the body of a flute is almost like buying a wrench. They all do the same job and all are made to the same specifications(barring Chinese junk - lol). Some people like Mack, others like Snap-On, some like Crafstman.

That leaves the headjoint and some metals or substances can make a small aesthetic difference.(ceramic, glass, and wood most notably).

Well, as a former President once said: “Here we go, again”.

I dared to post something I thought would be of interest to both new and seasoned members of the forum, but (apparently) couldn’t pull it off.

My very short post about gold flutes simply directed members to two sites.

I did (Alieannie) do my home-work before I posted this. The most I found was on gold flute-risers. The other was “tech” info that I don’t understand. I’m sorry that I’m so stupid. I don’t have a degree in Physics. I wanted to send members to a site that explains, in plain English, the properties of gold flutes. That was my only purpose. NOT to “start an argument”, nor to “re-hash”. And I am NOT a Powell flute rep. I play a Yamaha.

Sometimes, there are things that are more current than “old posts”. And it never hurts to get a new slant on things, even if they’ve been posted.

I also sent members to Tracy Harris’ site, because I simply thought they might enjoy hearing a wonderfully-talented flutist performing the Polonaise by Boehm, on a gold flute. Just to listen and enjoy, that’s all.

My reward for this, was a reply from flutist06, wherein he sent me a 54 line (count them, 54 lines) dissertation, and chastening me for, and here I repeat some of his remarks (I’m not making them up --- read them, above):

"I think the answer is that you think you've hit upon another controversial subject, and once again are attempting to stir up trouble.

and have endlessly attacked the members here. Don't try to preach to others on topics that you clearly don't understand.

We're tired of your games, and we can all see through you, so just give it up."

I don’t get it? Does anyone else? I’m stirring up “trouble” --- because I posted two links that I thought other members might appreciate? I know I’m stupid, but could someone help me out, here? I never authored an opinion in my last posts. My posts have only to do with flute playing. I never gave misinformation, in my latest posts. All I did was send members to two links.

As far as “hogging” the forum --- excuse me? Is it MY fault that the moderator, or whoever is in charge of this forum chose to put my links near the top? I certainly didn’t do this. Is it possible that my posts are positioned near the top because I get a lot of “hits”? Is it possible? I don’t have the answer.

On any forum, healthy exchanges, although they may “take issue” with another’s post, are welcome. What would never be welcome is disrespect and nasty, vile comments. NOW, just whom is “stirring up trouble”? Is it I, or flutist06? The call is yours.

Another member of the forum once said it best: “If you don’t like Jim Millen’s posts --- then just ignore them” At once, both eloquent and to the point.

Yet, flutist06 DOES read my posts, and replies to them, in a nasty, vitriolic and disrespectful way. NOW, whose character is in question?

Even though advised to do so, HE still reads my posts ---- and then replies.

Flutist06 ---- and the other members who don’t like me (for whatever reasons) --- do all of us a favor: just don’t READ my posts ---- and definitely don’t reply. I don’t think anything is fairer than that. It’s very simple. You don’t like my posts? Then, ignore them and don’t reply.

I DO welcome replies from members who know how to respond in a responsible, palatable and friendly gesture. Comments, suggestions and disagreements are always welcome.Hate mail is not.

And, by the way, speaking of currency, and not “re-hashing” old posts, did you all know that Yamaha is phasing out it’s “thin-wall” bodies of flutes in favor of “heavy-wall” bodies? This is not “old” news --- it was just published. THAT is one of the reasons I sent you to Tracy Harris’ site, so that you can hear her playing on a Julius Baker “heavy-wall” flute. IF you already knew this, then fine. I can promise you that there are many who didn’t. And, my best guess is that other flute makers IMO will “follow suit”.

FROM YAMAHA: "The thinwall option, however, is not available anymore. Basically, the width of the walls are a few hundredths of a millimeter thicker on the heavywall model than the normal model's construction. In terms of the sound, it darkens up the tone and really provides for a warm sound.

Concerning the "K" headjoint - this is a newly designed headjoint we are introducing in the next month. It was designed primarily with input from Jeff Khaner of the Philadelphia Orchestra, but also a number of other Yamaha flute artists. Along with the other headjoints we offer, this headjoint will be available as part of any flute special order, if desired. According to Jeff himself, the "K" headjoint will help provide a "powerful tone and wide dynamic range with good presence."

Finally, here’s a post from a member:

"im still going to say my other piece because its what i believe, its what many others believe, and others are still going to believe it.

gold's atomic makeup is very different than that of silver. because of that, it has a different density. it vibrates at a different speed, just like the slightest change in wavelength can cause different colors, even a different type of radiation. yes, this is even in the smallest amount. this is the difference between UV light and purple light. same concept, except applied to metals. this, in essence, would cause a warmer sound on the flute. even the smallest vibration differences can cause a world of difference when applied to sound.

now my opinion: an all gold flute is great for solo work, but seems too dull and is lost too easily when placed in an orchestral setting. i can tell the difference between gold and silver, even in the hands of an accomplished musician. many people can, whether they admit it or not. "

Thank you, member --- this mirrors what I’ve previously said.

Jim

It is so much fun being ignored. Wow.. people are so friendly here! What happened to all the awesome people that used to post on this site. Now all we have it just serious crabby people. Okay.. well not all, but some. Then of course we have the know it alls that never shut the heck up!!!

Kara:

I certainly hope that you're not referring to me. I have "shut up". I haven't posted in a long time. Except, my latest post had to do with sending members to two different sites. That's all it was. As far as my posts appearing "near the top" --- I have nothing to do with this. As you well know, it's the moderator who decides where a post will be placed.

You might even enjoy one of them: Tracy Harris' performance of the Polonaise by Boehm. I know you like to listen to flutists (you and I are both ardent fans of Rhonda Larson).

What's left of my hair stood on end when I listened to Tracy.

I had hoped that you and I had "buried the hatchet".

This is my favorite flute forum, and I'm still trying to find a way to fit in. I know --- I'm stupid, and still trying to find my way around.

I keep my mouth shut as much as possible. I'm getting better. (My doctor said I am).

Jim