Hole undercutting

    
Hole undercutting    11:08 on Thursday, March 13, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I have seen this concept several times in the Forum and I confess I do not know what it exactly means. There seems to be "blow hole undercutting" but also "tone holes undercutting".

I would like to learn about this subject and have an idea why this make a difference in the sound produced by the flute and the difficulties in their manufacturing.

Thanks!



Re: Hole undercutting    17:13 on Thursday, March 13, 2008          
Re: Hole undercutting    18:46 on Thursday, March 13, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Thanks. I enjoyed doing the factory visit tour.

There is a simple but interesting explanation about the meaning of the different "cuts" in Yamaha flutes. I had not seen those explanations before.


Re: Hole undercutting    11:13 on Saturday, March 15, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Now, there seems to be also a kind of tone hole undercutting. I suppose it cannot be done with drawn tone holes (this would weaken the hole tube base too much).

So, for tone hole undercutting, what is the advantage and how are they made?


Re: Hole undercutting    09:55 on Monday, March 17, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Does tone hole undercutting affect the tone or quality of the sound? If so, how come?


Re: Hole undercutting    21:21 on Tuesday, March 18, 2008          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

I think that the drawn and/or undercut tone holes are considered more efficient and may aid a bit in projection but aren't all that important.
On the soldered tone holes (especially older instruments) the silder seal must be good or the flute will play weak.
Another point about drawn holes is that generally the tone hole edge may be rolled and the width of that edge may be three times thicker than on soldered ones. This makes the necessity for a level tone hole all the more important.


Re: Hole undercutting    03:18 on Wednesday, March 19, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I suppose that drawn tone holes should have a "not so sharp" (word?) bend at the joint of the hole wall with the body tube. Because of the drawing process, the joint should tend to be round and not sharp.
In any case those holes would be difficult to undercut (if at all possible), but could be re-formed by stamping or a similar mechanical process. Is it so?


Re: Hole undercutting    08:39 on Wednesday, March 19, 2008          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

I would say so. (Not in that end of the business) but the thing is that the drawn ones can be formed to do a similar thing.

I remember a discussion with Galway and Johan Brögger about his design ideas and he was advocationg a certain shape to the hole which produced a venturi (sort of) effect. I think that he was writing/speaking about his double conical tone holes shape. This concept may improve the efficiency of the tone. See the Brögger interviews at the bottom right of the page:
http://www.thegalwaynetwork.com/interviews/intervue2.htm
These interviews are very educational, lengthy and difficult to understand but in the second interview beginning at about 19:20, he discusses in depth these tone holes and the diameters.

My point is that there is a certain school of players that are more into the traditional older French flute model. This would be the soldered ones with little or no undercutting. They can project a fine tone without all of the modern additions that change to tone from the older sound to a more bright & edgy one.


Re: Hole undercutting    18:44 on Wednesday, March 19, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Thank you. It's amazing all the things you know...


Re: Hole undercutting    15:36 on Thursday, March 20, 2008          

JButky
(657 points)
Posted by JButky

What about the things that you don't know that you don't know about? (:-)

Joe B


Re: Hole undercutting    18:16 on Thursday, March 20, 2008          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

To know that one does not know so many things is a sign of wisdom; to ignore that one ignores so many things is a sign of ignorance...


Re: Hole undercutting    19:01 on Thursday, March 20, 2008          

Patrick
(1743 points)
Posted by Patrick

I know the things I think I dont know are the the things I really know I dont know


   




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