Re: straubinger pad

Re: straubinger pad

    
Re: straubinger pad    03:43 on Monday, July 21, 2008          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

I don't see anything wrong with what Suzie posted, so give her a break. You come off as a pompous A$$. Lose the attitude if you would like to be more respected on this forum.


Re: straubinger pad    00:21 on Tuesday, July 22, 2008          

dasteufelhund
(16 points)
Posted by dasteufelhund

Kara,

I don't mean to be rude, but I guess I will. I had already stated multiple times, that I have not the slightest intention of marketing any pad on this or any forum. Now, you have just chimed in the middled of this conversation that I have had with JB and I suspected without even gone through our conversation, you saw my response to Suzie and opened your mouth to defend her. Without a clue you call another pompous, quite frankly, in my view, if anyone is pompous, then I have felt JB gave that impression. At least he provided explanation to his argument.

Calling other names when you don't even know why and siding with someone you are familiar with, typically is an act in middle or high school. But I guess that never left you. You and Suzie just randomly blurt out words, because no better vocabulary came to mind, well then, you share the same of what I thought of Suzie when she posted her comment, a bitch.

Please think before you retaliate, because mildly put I just don't give a damn about this type of exchange, let alone your respect.


Re: straubinger pad    00:39 on Tuesday, July 22, 2008          

dasteufelhund
(16 points)
Posted by dasteufelhund

Micron,

Felt pad has been around for a long, long time. It is true these synthetic pads haven't been long enough to prove their worth, but the reason they came into existence, or at least the goal of which these pads were intended during development stage, was to address the problems in felt pads.

The tolerance in felt I suppose make it easier to work on, but from a player's standpiont, I just find the felt sluggish because it has so much tolerance. But I will yield, to the notion that it is ultimately a personal preference, from the player's standpoint.

The membrane splits easily but you can rebuild the pad place a new piece over it did you know that? I have recovered several pads during rebuild including my own flute that way (when I do tear the skin.)

In response to your final sentence, I suppose it comes down to the degree of precision that a tech is willing to risk, and the experience/training that will allow him to achieve that limit. If that threshold does not exist, then Theobold Boehm wouldn't have arrived at the final stage of design of flute.


Re: straubinger pad    09:36 on Tuesday, July 22, 2008          

JButky
(657 points)
Posted by JButky

The membrane splits easily but you can rebuild the pad place a new piece over it did you know that? I have recovered several pads during rebuild including my own flute that way (when I do tear the skin.)


Yes, that is the failure point when a particular tolerance set is breached. As I have stated before, this is problem because of the design of the container. Reskinning is a natural consequence because this failure breach is part of the pad design. One of the modifications JS took into account when he designed his pads was addressing this issue in two separate variables of his design. That is a trade-off any player MAY have to make. People who love their straubs may will need reskinning on some time frame basis due to the particular variables that involve that player and that flute.

Tearing pads at the rate they occur are therefore not stable.

FWIW, New technologies and treatments have provided for all sorts of felt pads out there. If you couple them with David's installation methods and ideals, you have a very stable environment.

Here is the dilemma we techs face at times. Certain people are intent on putting straubs in any particular flute. Not all flutes are alike though and cannot be made to conform to the required tolerances. Even some pro flutes. (Lots of reasons for that).. The tech really won't know if the flute is a good candidate until work begins and can see just what the limits are that are provided by any particular flute. So you've got this flute that requires a particular levelness tolerance and there is no way that you can get that tone hole to that tolerance without filing into oblivion.

So what do techs do in that case? Well we hedge our bets, do what we do best and make it come as close as is physically possible. Straubs are not as rigid as people think and there is a mechanical reason for that, but it allows us a little room for flexibility. The idea with straubs is conforming a flute to take a pad, because you have to do it to make them even able to work. When I say felt has a greater range, that is what this is in reference to. You can make the flute conform in the same way, but you don't have to. You have a greater range of flexibility to deal with certain tolerance anomalies. The closer you can tighten any tolerances (optimization) will give you the best performance and stability.

Given the complex set of cooperative variables in padding systems, one must keep in mind the basic principle of trade-offs. Variables do not operate in a vacuum and will affect other variables, so these trade-offs must be made when making determinations while padding. Most of those determinations can't even be made until you start working with the other tolerances and see what you can do with them. (sometimes any flute gives you limits.)

Joe B


Re: straubinger pad    17:48 on Tuesday, July 22, 2008          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

I have been following this thread very closely. You get on us for calling YOU a name? Go back and read your post. I am not taking sides and JB does not come off as you say. YOU on the other hand do and really need to keep your temper in check. I don't know your age, but with your cocky attitude I am guessing you are still very young. There is no place for that type of rudeness in this forum. Still, the young ones on this forum have much more respect than you have shown. You are right, I can be a B**** when provoked by nasty people.

Now back to your ridiculous ramblings on Straubinger pads...


Re: straubinger pad    08:20 on Wednesday, July 23, 2008          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

Who else would I be addressing? You aren't the one that called us names. I am addressing D-hund. Sorry if I wasn't more clear. Happy Straubinger talk Kara has left the building.



Re: straubinger pad    02:28 on Saturday, July 26, 2008          

dasteufelhund
(16 points)
Posted by dasteufelhund

kara,
I know what I wrote because I wrote them..., just thought to point that out in case you did not realize it by telling me to read my own posts. Examine them again. I don't understand why you fail to grasp when I said nothing from my posts that implied anything close to what you are blatantly accusing. Don't "guess" people's age on the net because it does not do you or anyone good. When you open your mouth, it seems that it is only to change feet, look provide some good info like Micron and JB, otherwise this exchange between you and I frankly is just entertaining.

Micron:
The aspect of anything invented to compete with one another of course, requires motive and marketing. As anything that is made to sell, the question of why it was made, and for the person who made his/her concept a reality, now comes how to get it known(marketing).

How to eliminate or at least, decrease the variables that will cause failures in sealing is our goal, so if one combination is good and provide consistency longer than previous, then I say by all means, stay with it or provide some useful information when someone asks for pro/con of it. In terms of David Straubinger's intention of monopolizing his pad by offering certification, well, we don't know if this is true and I think it's harsh to assume so. But if we view this from the business standpoint, then yes, any business strive to maintain or increase profit (i.e Boehm and his flute design, or Cooper scale vs. Bennett scale.) I have already mentioned, I do not market any pads for anyone, they reflect solely based on what I have experimented with and the difference felt on flutes that I encountered including my own. If john doe's flute works better with felt? Great! I would like to see how it plays with Straub or any other different pads in, if he would let me. You have provided great info and I hope this post would clear up the air a bit.

JB:
I am still digesting your note I will respond shortly.


Re: straubinger pad    08:46 on Monday, July 28, 2008          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

At our last local flute fest a prominent flute sales/repair company had a booth and I was looking for headjoints to try on my Haynes. None fit so I was trying some on a Powell that happened to be there. As I was playing it, I discovered some issues with the pad seals. I think that I was sluuring from a C2 down to F#1 and not getting the lower note. So, I asked the company owner about the flute and he said that it had Straubinger pads on it....as if this was something important to the quality. I asked him twice who did the pad work and got no response. So, I think that it was him. My concern now is that if a person (of quality) has done this sort of work in installing these special Straubinger pads which are supposed to be installed by a specially trained technician and they can't seem to get the job done right why should I value their quality? Geeze.....Anybody can install leaky pads. I also am not so sure that I want my tone holes automatically filed down every time that a pad is installed on one.


Re: straubinger pad    13:16 on Monday, July 28, 2008          

JButky
(657 points)
Posted by JButky

Bilbo,

Last week the Powell site had this listed on their website, just to instill your confidence.
Notice there is no mention of needing pad installation experience! If you go to their website, this posting from last week is now gone, but the other flutemaking jobs are still listed and just as interesting..They must have found an electronics, needlework or jewelry experienced someone to do padding (straubs or otherwise).

Joe B

Verne Q. Powell Flutes, Inc.
Finisher
Job Location: Maynard, MA

Job Summary:
Prepare, assemble, fit, and pad flutes in accordance with company standards.

Experience working with small electronics or other parts, or handicraft experience such as needlework or jewelry making, is strongly preferred. Exceptional dexterity skills are a must. Ability to play the flute is a plus. High school diploma required.

How to Apply:

Maria Stefanova, Director of HR
Verne Q. Powell Flutes, Inc.
One Clock Tower Place, Suite 300
Maynard, MA 01754

Please view our web site at:
http://www.powellflutes.com


Re: straubinger pad    20:08 on Monday, July 28, 2008          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

D-hund, I am not going to waste anymore time with you. I don't associate with your kind. Now I have more important things to do.


Re: straubinger pad    18:55 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

Joe B. That's interesting.
My comment was of course not meant as a slam on the Powell Co. so much as the work that was done on an older instrument. I was expecting better.


Re: straubinger pad    21:05 on Tuesday, July 29, 2008          

vampav8trix
(445 points)
Posted by vampav8trix


Bilbo,

Last week the Powell site had this listed on their website, just to instill your confidence.
Notice there is no mention of needing pad installation experience! If you go to their website, this posting from last week is now gone, but the other flutemaking jobs are still listed and just as interesting..They must have found an electronics, needlework or jewelry experienced someone to do padding (straubs or otherwise).

Joe B

Verne Q. Powell Flutes, Inc.
Finisher
Job Location: Maynard, MA

Job Summary:
Prepare, assemble, fit, and pad flutes in accordance with company standards.

Experience working with small electronics or other parts, or handicraft experience such as needlework or jewelry making, is strongly preferred. Exceptional dexterity skills are a must. Ability to play the flute is a plus. High school diploma required.



Does this mean when I finally get to try a real Powell flute that I might be very disappointed?

Up until this point, I haven't tried any of the nicer Powells.


Re: straubinger pad    08:28 on Wednesday, July 30, 2008          

JButky
(657 points)
Posted by JButky


Does this mean when I finally get to try a real Powell flute that I might be very disappointed?


Not necessarily. But a posting like that is rather scary. There are regular technician's who will apply for a job like that. It's just interesting to me that it was worded that way. Some flute makers outsource their padding and on repair work too. That could be bad or good. It always depends on who.

The differences now-a-days with flutemakers is really if the head craftsman is in the building. Smaller makers like Burkart or Landell or Arista have more control over their operations. Jim Phelan's job postings for Burkart for instance are precise and accurate. The strength of a handmade flute company resides with the people who are there. If there is an excellent flutemaker as the foreman, the product will be consistently good. Companies change, people come, people go, people die. Things change.

Here's an interesting question, What will the future hold for Straubinger pads once David is gone? I'm not trying to sound morbid and wish no ill will on David, but what will happen with straub pads when that day eventually arrives? Right now, he's the only source...

Like I said, things will always change. If you like straubs, that's all the more reason to get them now. There will always be another pad at some point down the road. In the History of flutemaking there are always certain people that are really important to a particular product. When those people are gone, change is inevitable.

Alright, I'm rambling this Wednesday morning with random thoughts. Time for me to continue my NFA prep..

Joe B



   








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