i hve had my flute for about 14/15 mounths now, i play it regular, i know you are meant to take it in yearly, but does it need it? i know it will prolong its life but my mum says that if it stll plays fine then we'll leave it, but then my dad has already has to screw back in a couple of screws.

Sounds like it needs to go yesterday. LOL

I really would take it in at least once a year.

You might be unconsciously adjusting your embouchure for leaking pads or pressing harder to cover the holes.

I have mine looked at twice a year because I play it so much. Or if I suspect that it might be leaking, I take it in sooner.

"when should you take a flute for a COA?"

Before you have noticed it isn't working to its full potential.

In other words once a year or so. Most of my customers are amazed at how much better their instruments play after a service when they hadn't realised there was really anything wrong. A repairer can fix screws so that they don't keep coming loose or even fall out. (It's very difficult to get spares for many flutes - even major brands). Don't leave getting it checked out until there is a major problem.

I agree with most of what Micron says but I do strongly recommend a check over - not necessarily a full service - annually (less or more depending on the amount of use & the quality of the flute - generally the cheaper it is the more frequently adjustment is required) is needed to ensure the flute is in best playing condition. These instruments are much like cars - you don't realise how the performance has dropped until you them back from their 6000 mile service.

Micron list seems to be quite exhaustive.

I do not like the idea of taking my Yamaha to the service unless it is needed, such as having a problem listed there or if I was not satisfied with its performance for any reason.

Otherwise, IMO it would be like "fixing something that is not broken". As an engineer, this was one of the most important things I learned in my career.

COA: Cleaning, oiling and adjusting (I suppose) so:

Cleaning, OK, but I suppose if one prefers a shinny instrument normally it can be done by the owner. If he/she cannot or just does not want to bother, then no choice. But it has not been my case so far and anyway, I am against too much cleaning. I suspect that too much wiping might deteriorate whatever coating the silver has, but the fact is that my flute does not tarnish. The daily contact of my hands and fingers seem to be enough to keep it untarnished.

Oiling/ Lubrication, OK, but every year?
A flute is not a car, (obviously); it has no engine turning 3,000 a minute @ 90 degr C and generating 100+ horses power to push 1 Ton of metal and people ahead at 90 mph. In normal conditions the factory lubricants in a good flute should last a little longer, I guess.

Many very hard working machine components are lubricated for life (for example rolling ball bearings). And they can support amazing loads, at very high speeds and with high precision. There are a couple of bearings like that in every the car wheel, for example. Why should a flute require such an intense care as oiling every year?

Adjusting? OK, but only if needed. And I believe it probably depends on the age and quality of the instrument and the player level, his/her habits and professional needs.

My old Gemeinhardt M2 was a vintage model but it was unused when I started and I played as a beginner four years on it before it started with problems, such as requiring adjusting pivots every week and I did it myself. Later there were leaks at that time I felt I had outgrown it and finally I bought my new Yamaha.

The YFL has been 18 months at my service so far and stills looks, operates and sounds as new (in fact, it sounds better and better because I am improving my technique). I never took it for COA, but I had to repair the HJ tenon due to an accidental fall. The technician repaired the tenon, changed the cork because it had to be moved quite a bit but did not propose or performed any COA. He runs one of the very few official Yamaha Service Centers in Madrid, so I think he knew what he was doing.

This is just my opinion and it could collide with the position of technicians here that know much better than me. And perform many COAs. But I felt like expressing my beliefs anyway.

Micron, of course it does not, all the contrary. I appreciate the list of symptoms you provided and I believe it is very informative and useful.

But there may be other opinions from experts in the Forum; as I am no expert, I just try to tell about my own experience. When I disagree on something, it is always a problem for me to assess the possible effect ow my words in other people, because languages are so subtle and this is not my mother tonge. It's like opening the umbrella before it rains.

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ow = of

'IMO it would be like "fixing something that is not broken".'

......but is it working to it's full potential?

Yes, there are dishonest repair technicians, but I think that they are very much in the minority.

For the question "when should you take a flute for a COA ?", I say the answer is "It depends". I speak as a flutist and former repair technician. The more you play it and the more you depend upon it for income, the more important it becomes to be sure that your flute stays in good working order. Preventive maintenance is needed to ensure that. Many flutes can be played trouble free for years without a COA. However, that doesn't mean you should never have a COA. I've owned my current primary flute (a Muramatsu) for about 10 years and during that time, I've performed 3 COAs and a few minor adjustments. This year I needed a bit more work to re-level a few pads to eliminate a couple of very tiny leaks, but all of the pads are still the factory originals. If you take reasonably good care of your flute, annual COAs may be overkill, but on the other hand, it can't hurt. You'd be surprised how minor leaks can gradually occur unnoticed over time. A good technician can be sure that everything is in perfect working order. Ask your technician if he/she uses a Magnehelic Leak Tester. That is a precision device that will detect even the smallest of leaks with great accuracy.

Also, most oil deteriorates over time. It's common to find that after a year or two of use, the oil turns dark or even black because of contaminates from the air and also microscopic metal particles from wear. When a proper COA is performed, the flute is totally disassembled and all traces of the old oil is removed and then replaced with fresh, clean oil. This will help to minimize the wear on the moving parts. In many respects, this is a "pay me now or pay me later" situation.

You are the best judge of how often to get a COA for you flute. If you are an occasional player and don't earn your living playing the flute, COAs are appropriate every few years. On the other hand, if you are a playing many gigs each week or depend upon your flute to earn your living, you might consider annual COAs. Also, COAs are more important if you have a solid silver flute or gold flute because those metals are softer than nickel silver and therefore will wear faster on the steel shafts.

COA = Clean, Oil, Adjust

It's a preventative maintenance procedure that usually consists of the following:

Remove all of the key mechanisms from the body.
Clean old oil from all moving parts - shafts, pivots, and key tubes. Some technicians also include cleaning the silver and removing tarnish.
Inspect all pads, corks, felts and replace those that are worn or defective (this is NOT a complete repad though - just the bad ones)
Oil and reassemble the flute.
Check for leaks. (Really good shops use a Magnehelic Leak Tester) - reseat or shim pads as needed to correct leaks
Adjust mechanism as needed - i.e. remove lost motion, adjust key heights, adjust spring tension if needed, etc.

""... You'd be surprised how minor leaks can gradually occur unnoticed over time..."
And that is why I gave a list of clues by which they can be more readily recognised."

A COA helps to identify and correct items like those on your list but it does so before they become serious enough to be noticed by the player. This allows the player to schedule the maintenance when it is convenient rather than having to deal with an emergency repair when it may be too late.

I totally agree with using synthetic oils. They don't tend to get sticky/gummy with age. Even with synthetics, I still believe there is a benefit from cleaning and re-oiling periodically to remove the microscopic particles that will contribute to wear of the mechanism.

"'IMO it would be like "fixing something that is not broken".'
......but is it working to it's full potential?"

I believe that Micron's list of symptoms can point easily to a possible defect -or the absence of it, without expending money and, I see this idea of mine confirmed by the experts, without unnecessarily risking the instrument with avoidable dis assemblies (and some times, long and risky sending to the workshop).

About Full potential:
Now, what is " its full potential"? I would rather say "to the player full potential".

Professional and Masters can take all that a good instrument can give and even more; so they need their instruments to be in the utmost perfect state. After all, they make their living out of them -and normally they can afford the most exquisite technical service.

When it comes to students, like me or the owner of this thread, minor defects probably could not affect our playing because we are not at that level of perfection (quite far from it, in my case).

I say this because I had recently my teacher play on my flute (as I was complaining too much about this note or this another not sounding as it should and speculating about buying a new fancy HJ and so on). The result of her test was amazing. It sounded like a completely different flute, so much better... She could also blow a high D without any apparent effort while I die just to attain a horrible high C.

And she concluded saying that my Yamaha is much easier to play than her Muramatsu and has a very good sound. I know Masters like Galway can extract very good sound even from mediocre student flutes, but though she is very good teacher, she is not Galway and still she could.

About overkilling:
I agree that we should avoid overkilling in any aspect of our lives, but nonetheless we should refrain to give too much rationing on impulses we have to spend money in things we just like.

I mean, I probably do not need a new and expensive HJ with gold riser, etc., but it would make me very happy to buy one. And this could be enough reason for me.

In some cases, a premature COA could also give happiness to a student, or at least improve her/his confidence and result in a better playing. This could be enough reason for her/him to do it, too.

Micron, I think we are in agreement more than you realize. I do not advocate that every flute needs a COA every year. As I said in a previous post, it's really up to the owner to determine how often they should take their flute in for maintenance. The COAs that I did on my own flute were about 3 years apart.

In my experience doing repairs, I found that there are 3 categories:

Professional players - They take good care of their (expensive) flutes but use them heavily and may request an annual checkup of their flute whether it really needs it or not.

Amateur/Semi Pro - They generally take good care of their instruments. Since they don't use them as much as a pro, the checkup/COA can be done less frequently.

Students - Many do not take very good care of their flutes. The flutes get banged-up, sat-on, dropped, spilled-on, etc. They need repairs more often than preventive maintenance.

Most players fall into the last two categories and for them, COAs are not needed annually.

Wow! 3000 ww customers? Sounds like you have a thriving business. No way you could do 3000 COAs a year without an army of technicians.