Re: does this heappen to anyone else?

    
Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    13:50 on Saturday, May 2, 2009          

vampav8trix
(445 points)
Posted by vampav8trix

Sounds like your playing is hot!

Nope. My dogs just cry.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    15:53 on Saturday, May 2, 2009          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

Perhaps Lera has figured out how to rig a "Clapper" up to a smoke detector.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    16:04 on Saturday, May 2, 2009          

Account Closed
(3248 points)
Posted by Account Closed

Lera dear, are you playing those fast pieces again where your flute starts smoking? lol!! That happens to me all the time!


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    08:45 on Sunday, May 3, 2009          

JOhnlovemusic
(1279 points)
Posted by JOhnlovemusic

Are you in a private home or a condo/apartment unit?

Generally smoke detectors are programmed to go off when a certain density of particles is recognized. However, many models used for public places, or large housing units also have a sound receiver that is intended to sound when the unit hears another units alarm. I will bet that your unit is set up to also recognize when it hears another alarm, and your flute pitches are right up there in the correct pitch range. Some are combination units used to detect somke and break-ins (the crack of a glass window)

Now the question is what can you do?
If it is battery operated you can take the batteries out everytime you want to play the flute. But you must remember to put them back in, and it probably means you have to have a step stool nearby all the time. If the alarm is hardwired into a system you can't do anything; and if you don't own the home you can't change to another type because of liability reasons for the owners.

If you are in a private home, that you or your family owns, you can switch to a different make of alarm or you could do the battery thing. If you are in a home and the fire alarm is part of a security system or security service then the alarm is a compound alarm to detect fire and break-ins. The security company may be able to adjust the sensitivity or switch out some of the alarms to a different brand that might not go off when you play -but still work when the window is broken (call them and ask for a senior specialist who can work with your very unique situation). If they say no; contact their competitor and explain the situation to see if they can offer a suggestion to earn your bussiness; if so go back to your company and tell them that compnay #2 thinks they can solve your problem and you would like to stay with your company if they could maybe reconsider a solution. Maybe if you practiced in a different area it might help but otherwise you are in a predicament.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    00:05 on Monday, May 4, 2009          

AK42
(157 points)
Posted by AK42

I don't know that much about flutes, but I would try swabbing it really well if it just survived a minor fire... It couldn't hurt... also if there is anyway to get it cleaned proffessionally (similar to the treaments for brass, or oiling for real WOODwinds :P)


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    08:31 on Monday, May 4, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Do not tamper with fire detectors. You could be held responsible in case of a fire goes undetected.

I have never heard of sounds (or flutes) triggering fire alarms -until now.

I suspect you have a sensitive neighbour who is triggering the alarm somehow, in an attempt to stop you playing. Not that you play bad, but some people do not understand music so much.

We do not have fire alarms here, but when one of the neighbour (who probably does not like my music) starts slamming doors, I understand it is time to stop. It works fine so far.

Suggestions:

- Try playing at different hours, maybe be you are irritating someone at specific hours.
- Friendlily question your neighbours concerning your practise hours and try to detect someone not comfortable with them
- On the technical side, you can call the building admin to get the system checked and repaired if necessary.

The smoke detectors I know use a tiny radioactive source to ionize the air, so that a very small quantities of smoke particles trigger the system. Other method is by detecting the optical properties of the air in a small chamber. In both cases I do not understand how they could react to sound waves.

here you have a readable article on their technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_detectors




Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    08:51 on Monday, May 4, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I remember another annoying feature of smoke detectors: they suffer with age (as everybody) and get increasingly sensitive to the the point of trigger spontaneously.
I suppose it is a matter of contamination of the sensor with ambient pollutants. The amercium inside should last for a couple of centuries).

Before they get to the point of spontaneous triggering, they may become sensitive to the small vibrations produced by the flute sound, I am just guessing.

A quick cure (and the only one I know) is replacing the detector with a new one. If of the battery operated type, they are fairly cheap (around 10$ each). If they are part of a central fire alarm system, do not do it directly, ask the technical service to do this.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    18:36 on Monday, May 4, 2009          

flutechick101
(72 points)
Posted by flutechick101

haha. I must say that this post made my day. It was rather amusing. No, it's never happened to me. haha. Wow.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    21:14 on Monday, May 4, 2009          

JOhnlovemusic
(1279 points)
Posted by JOhnlovemusic

An apartment? Yep, then the detector is probably set to go off if it 'hears' a neighboring alarm going off also. It is a safety feature so that if the apartment next to you is on fire and smoke sets off the alarm there the smoke may not be in your room yet, but the fire could be on the adjoining wall. It truly is a great feature for saving lives.

Unfortunately it is not condusive to flute practicing.

You will have to try practicing in another room. Since you are in an apartment. Contact the manager or superintindent and explain to them the alarm goes off when you play your flute. See if they can contact the manufacturer to see if a pitch or sensitivity adjustment can be made to help prevent it from going off when you play but still work as it is supposed to.

Another option you might try is another flute or headjoint. The higher harmonics are actually what is probably setting the alarm off. A different flute or a different headjoint might change those harmonics. Borrow some from a friend if you can just to see if it changes anything. If it does then maybe you can use one headjoint when you practice at home and another everywhere else. Or maybe you'll like the new headjoint and will switch to it.

What a unique situation.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    14:35 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I had not heard of such a feature before, but as two different posters agree on it, I must agree that it is a safety feature that could probably be causing the problem.

Ask the administration if they find it acceptable to replace the detector with a unit that is not set to trigger on other neighbouring alarms (or if a configuration feature, to reconfigure the detector to trigger only on smoke presence).


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    17:22 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009          

JOhnlovemusic
(1279 points)
Posted by JOhnlovemusic

JoseLuis - yes and no. It's a good idea but Federal Law,State law, and more importantly their insurance carrier will prevent them from changing that unit out to not use that function. Ther eis a HUGE discount for using this type alarm/detector. All the units will have to be the same. However, sometimes you can adjust them.

Lera - do some testing on it.
Is this a new apartment?
If not, has it only started happening recently? If you have played the flute before without incident and this is a new thing in the same apartment then what someone said earlier could be true; which is the sensitivity has changed. The sensors could be getting weak and should be changed out. You can save someones life by telling management and having them install a new replacement unit.

Are there certain notes that cause it? I'll bet it doesn't happen when you play your saxophone. Play your flute and see which notes set it off. Although it could seem problematic you could avoid certian notes. I have a friend who can't use her 3rd finger left hand. So she can't play Ab's (I think it's Ab) anyway when she practices and plays she just avoids Ab by transposing any piece that has Ab in it. It's a good skill to develop (transposition). Just trying to think outside the box for you.


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    18:04 on Tuesday, May 5, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I understand. What about covering (temporarily) the sensor with a card tube only while playing?


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    09:02 on Wednesday, May 6, 2009          

JOhnlovemusic
(1279 points)
Posted by JOhnlovemusic

I was thinking about that. Perhaps make a cover like those trombone bell cover/practice mutes. Use some elastic or string to secure it over the sensor and use some layers of fabric and foam. And perhaps that will be soundproof enough.

But as you (Jose-Luis) said earlier,you must take it off when you are no longer practicing!!!!!!


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    17:35 on Thursday, May 7, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

If the sensor reacts to sound vibrations it is most probable that it will be more sensitive to frequencies on the higher part of the spectrum , such as flute or piccolo and less to saxo. Clarinet could rach higher notes too.

Probably they changed the alarm sensors to the type suggested (those that trigger automatically when they "hear" a neighbour alarm going off). For me it is a crazy and stupid invention by the insurance companies, but very few things can surprise me by now.

A flute sound could be wrongly taken as an alarm, as well as a baby loud cry and several other sounds.

Try wrapping the sensor with cardboard and check if this improve the situation. Do not leave the cardboard there after the test.

However, if the sound is the cause, when your local sensor triggers it should make the neighbouring sensors also trigger. Can you hear them?


Re: does this heappen to anyone else?    20:23 on Thursday, May 7, 2009          

vampav8trix
(445 points)
Posted by vampav8trix

Generally smoke detectors are programmed to go off when a certain density of particles is recognized. However, many models used for public places, or large housing units also have a sound receiver that is intended to sound when the unit hears another units alarm. I will bet that your unit is set up to also recognize when it hears another alarm, and your flute pitches are right up there in the correct pitch range. Some are combination units used to detect somke and break-ins (the crack of a glass window)


Yep. I set of the smoke alarm when I used to play the drumset. Whenever I hit a certain cymbol, the alarms went off.


   








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