I'm tuning up my old Armstrong. It had an overhaul a couple years ago, and looking at it today I believe the C# and C pads on the foot are too thick. I took one out and found no shims. I measure about .125". I'm considering ordering pads from www.musicmedic.com. I see they let you choose the pad thickness and then select an instrument. Can anyone tell me what I should order for this flute? For .125" I calculate 3.1mm - clearly thicker than any they offer. I'm guessing I should go with 2.7mm and some shims. Am I on the right track?

Thanks for any help that can be offered. I'm new at this, but good with tools, spacial relationships, and I'm a miserable perfectionist.

Jim

Yes, the older armstrongs use thicker pads. It can be tricky repadding the older flutes. I finlly finished my 1970 Model 80B. It took an abnormally long time to get it shimmed and adjusted. Measure carefully. I found that the keys were all slightly different.

If you are doing this on your own and you have never repadded a flute, good luck and be ready to take it to a tech if you can't get it right.

Flutes are very sensative to leaks.

I am self taught. It has taken me a year and 20 flutes to get a technique down.

I recommend the Burkheart and Phelan book. It is very good.

http://www.burkart.com/book/book.htm?sid=0001p52W2xOElg4VD07G5G3

good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I can't say I've never repadded a flute before. In fact, I think it was this very flute that I repadded over 30 years ago, but it may have been a Bundy flute that I played before I got this one. At the time, no one told me repadding a flute was difficult, and I just did it. I did get the pads from a competent local music shop owner, so he picked out pads that would fit properly.

This flute was professionally repadded just a couple years ago, but so far I'm not really impressed with the job they did. The pads that are on it are clearly too thick. I will need to replace them or install partial shims to get them level. In the mean time I bought a much newer Armstrong 104 for my daughter to play. My old Armstrong may become a learning project. I noticed the plating is eroded through inside the tonehole, so it may never be 100%.

I left a note at www.musicmedic.com, and they recommended I order a couple 2.5mm and 2.7mm pads as well as some shims. I really had in mind that I would order a complete set (or two) along with some shims.

I will check out the book you referenced. I have also downloaded some information from the web. I'd gladly accept any helpful tips you have, especially in the area of what tools I really need and were I can get tools and supplies.

Thanks again,
Jim

Hi Jim.

Music Medic sells a little flute repair kit. It should have everything you need to do the job.

If your flute is anything like mine, you can't replace the plastic retainers that hold the pads in with screws. The spuds are not threaded. You can get replacement retainers at Ferees. They are not online. You have to order a catalogue. 1 800 253 2261 You will have to set up an account. The part that you will need is: C60 Universal nylon tone boosters for the flute.

It sounds like you are mechanically inclined. If you can work with tiny parts and have lots of patience and attention to detail, you should be able to do it.

Whatever you do, don't loose any parts, the new parts on the new flutes don't fit the old ones. If the screws are tight. Lots of patience and soak the parts in penetrating oil.

The flute is toast unless you clean it and overhaul it once you put it in penetrating oil.

There are some really good repair techs on this forum.

Maybe they will put in their two cents.

Good luck.

It sounds like you're on the right track. Most amateur repairers would not realize that you need not only the right diameter, but also the right thickness. Since you don't have the original pads to measure the thickness, it will be somewhat of a trial-and-error method. MusicMedic's advice to try a couple of each thickness seems sound to me. Unless you have money to throw away on full sets that might not fit, the onesy-twosy approach might save you some money until you are sure which thickness and sizes you need.

Another good book is Jeff Smith's "Servicing the Flute":
http://www.jlsmithco.com/Home/BOOKS/SERVICING-THE-FLUTE-BY-JEFF-SMITH

For tools, be sure that you have a good set of screwdrivers of the proper sizes to fit your flute's pivot screws and rods. Don't skimp on cheap ones or you may end up damaging the screw slots. I would also strongly suggest that you get a feeler for testing the pad coverage and finding leaks.
http://www.jlsmithco.com/ISOLATORS-FEELERS
http://www.musicmedic.com/catalog/products/tool-g200.html

Feeler usage is covered in both the Burkart and Smith books. This is crucial for determining the shims you need. You should probably get a shim assortment too. For those you might try Ferrees:
http://www.ferreestools.com (1-800-253-2261)
The website is a bit disorganized, so you may not be able to find the shims there but they have good prices on small assortments. Order BA105 100 Assorted Paper Flute Washers - $3.80.

This is all better information than I had hoped! I will look into all of that.

In the mean time, I have had relative success with the old Armstrong. The foot joint was tough. As I mentioned, the pads were really too thick, and were hitting in the rear of the cup before the front. Lacking pads to put in, I inserted partial shims under the front of each cup. The pads may not be sealing perfectly, in fact one looks tighter on one side now than the other, but the flute does play reasonably well. The small cork which sets the C and C# key was a touch too slim when I started. It took me about 4 tries to replace it but I was finally successful.

The pads on the body were all pretty reasonable, so a couple minutes with the adjustment screws got everything there sealing pretty well. All the rods got cleaned and oiled. Some of the pads were quite sticky, but it seems like a quick blot with some denatured alcohol helped that without distorting the pads. While I had it all apart, it got a good dose of silver polish and a soap and water wash. All of the threads got a drop of oil. I'm sure some of that activity is not very professional.

I'm going to hunt around for a head joint, but I suspect that it's not worth replacing. As I mentioned, the silver plating is eroded down to what looks like copper in the tone hole. I wonder if I can apply some silver solder to it to repair it. I'd have to make sure there's no lead involved.

Now, back to eBay for a new instrument to repad. One of my recent aquisitions was a Gemeinhardt, which could use a few new pads but plays awesome. It's an SP2. Maybe I'll look for another one of those.

Thanks for the help!

Jim

"you do know that when you took out the pad and put it back in you ruined the seat, yes?"

well, I suppose the obvious answer is yes, but the more correct answer is that I don't quite know how to "create a seat" in either a new pad or an old pad. I'm guessing that if I disturbed them enough (which in this case I expect I did), that it's not possible to re-seat them, so I really need new ones. If you could recommend a technique? Maybe dampening with distilled water and clamping lightly overnight?

Now that you are sure I'm an idiot, I will say that I purchased the Burkheart and Phelan book (but it has not arrived yet), and I downloaded the catalog and price list for Ferrees. I will certainly make another attempt once I educate myself a little.

On a sadder note, my 12-year old daughter who has been playing for a few years, has decided not to play any longer. Too bad, really, since she and I have very little in common. I tried to push her into practicing on a regular basis - I recommended about 20 minutes a day most days a week - and I think it pushed her over the edge.

The good news is my other daughter, 9 years old, wants to start this year. I fixed her up with an older Gemeinhardt 2SP. I read a lot of controversy here about gemeinhardt's, but after a cleaning/lube this particular one played really well for me. My primary flute is a silver open-hole DeFord.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take all I can get.

Jim

Feeler usage is covered in both the Burkart and Smith books. This is crucial for determining the shims you need. You should probably get a shim assortment too. For those you might try Ferrees: http://www.ferreestools.com (1-800-253-2261) The website is a bit disorganized, so you may not be able to find the shims there but they have good prices on small assortments

Thats why I called and got the printed version. I find it easier to use.