Split E ..so much important?

    
Split E ..so much important?    04:16 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I could be reopening and old, never ending debate, but I hope not.

I am comparing models for my future backup flute and stumbled over the split E issue.

For some authors it seems to be an improvement for top E(for me a somewhat difficult note, but not so much with the Nagahara HJ). For others it is sign of poor design or bad quality, a sort of a patch to help out other instrument problems.

As it adds mechanical complication and a little overprice, I wonder if it is still necessary with modern flutes, of the basic type (student models such as YFL 221 and similar).

What are your opinions? Should I stick to the traditional approach of buying with Split E for "just in case"?.

I probably cannot test all options personally, even if I travel to All Flutes in London again.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    05:15 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

Yes, for me, very important

Although my lips and power and speed can now go up to F#4 on any flute, and E3 is definitely no problem for me even without split E, but I still like to have a split-E to smoothen and balance the 'pressure' evenly on 3rd register notes - that is very important to have an even and balanced tone on the 3rd register.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    06:01 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

Micron wrote this before:

"What is Split E?

The two keys ('keys' meaning key cups with pads) operated by the g finger (left hand ring finger) are normally an integral unit.

With split E, these keys are made independent, but mechanically linked in such a way that the G finger still closes both of them. What is different is that when the E key is pressed, it is mechanically linked to close the lower G key (leaving the upper G key still lifted)

The third octave notes on a flute are all harmonics or lower notes, and they require a single hole to be opened (like a sax octave key) to make the notes sound more easily and better. For third octave E, the upper G key should be lifted for a vent. On a standard flute this is impossible without also lifting the lower G key. The split E mechanism overcomes this situation, enabling a single vent hole.

Note that third octave F# and G# are also difficult notes to produce, relative to their neighbours. This is because they too have two vent holes. However the problems are not as severe as for E.

What does it achieve?

Third octave E becomes significantly easier to play (requiring less air speed). It does not so readily drop to A. It is a lot easier to slur to and from both the higher and lower A. E behaves like its neighbouring notes.

Down side:

1. Some more adjustment time for technicians. However it is not too bad, as the lower G key does not need to close FIRMLY when operated by the E key. For a flute with regulating screws, adjustment is actually simplified, because adjustment between the two G keys can be done with a screw.

2. Some people suggest greater unreliability because of the extra mechanism. I do not regard this as significant. However the combination of in-line G keys and split E can be mechanically disastrous, with the Bb key inclined to jam if the G key is firmly closed. Perhaps this is why in America, where there has been a mysterious and irrational love affair with in-line G keys, split E has been less common. If is pretty standard in many countries.

3. Extra weight. Barely significant.

4. One fingering for third octave G to A trill is lost. Others work OK for the experienced player with good breath support. (For a doubler, this is not a common trill)

5. One (2?) somewhat obscure tremolo fingerings are lost. (I've never encountered them)

"Split E" is regarded as a bit of a misnomer, because mechanically speaking, the G key (not E) has been split into two parts. "

<Added>

I think the best is the E-Facilitator!

Maybe technician can help you add a E-Facilitator?

Or, you can add one yourself, many people in China add it themselves as DIY (cut from coke can and then stick with contact cement)
http://www.flutefriends.com/bbs3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2964&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=diy&start=15


Re: Split E ..so much important?    06:43 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

piccolo1991
(94 points)
Posted by piccolo1991

I am not a split E fan. I notice a tone change on the E that I personally don't like...others have scorned me for saying that, but you asked. However, I have a few students who loved it so much that they decided to get it. I personally like the E-facilitator...or donut as I usually call it (even though on my flute now, it looks like a moon shape). I think you can have them added in.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    09:03 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

"I personally like the E-facilitator...or donut"
No, I do not know about it. Can you explain more?

About the split E, I find surprising that important instrument makers of basic/student flutes such as Yamaha and many, (if not most all other brands) offer the option "no split E". For me it means that it is not so important. Also some professional flutes do not have it.

More opinions are welcome...


Re: Split E ..so much important?    10:50 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

TBFlute
(130 points)
Posted by TBFlute

My current flute does not have a split-E, and I don't miss it at all. I opted for a "doughnut" E-facilitator instead. In fact, I find E3 easier to hit on this flute than my old flute which did have a split-E. I also sometimes press down my middle finger (without covering the hole) to flatten high A, and I don't believe you can do that if you have a split-E mechanism.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    15:47 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

Siersan
(28 points)
Posted by Siersan

A split E was great when I had trouble hitting high E, and it's nice on off days. But if you have trouble with high E, you're going to have trouble with high F# too, and there's no common mechanism to fix that one. Nowadays if I need a high E that's clearer or responds better when playing softly (with or without a split E), I add the second trill key to the standard high E fingering if it's not too awkward for the piece.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    16:22 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

Pyface
(157 points)
Posted by Pyface

I had to learn on a flute with no split E, and I really struggled with it! Then, i found that if I lent my finger towards me, and onto the trill key there, it sounded fine, but slightly airy. I love having a split E on my newer flute, it's just so much easier, and when playing something hard, you can concentrate on notes, dynamics and rhythms, not hitting an E3!


Re: Split E ..so much important?    17:30 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

DaveandKateplus1
4

I have never been a fan the split E. The extra bar gets in my way and it slows down the mechanism and makes me feel as though there is something wrong with the flute when ever I try playing on one. I learned without having one for over 20 years and guess I am just used to that note. I treat it just like any other problematic note on the flute and never had a problem with it. So, the split E hinders my playing more that helping in my own experience. I don't need nor want one. More and more flutes are being offered with a split E that I think the younger generation is just use to it now and rely more on it that I as it wasn't as common of a feature on flutes when I was growing up. The new generation of flutists haver got it really nice now with all the new flutes and designs that are coming out. So many wonderful flutes, gizmos and gadgets to choose from!

<Added>

Pyrioni, I just saw your link that you posted. What a great idea! Thanks for sharing that.
You can buy a G donut to put in yourself from JL smith that is only a couple of dollars also as an option. Just because I am crafty and a dork that way, I think that I am going to try making one myself out of silver and try it out on a flute.

<Added>

I wish I could read Chinese :( I want to know what the captions says. Maybe I can use and on line translator,


Re: Split E ..so much important?    19:25 on Saturday, February 27, 2010          

InstrumentCrazy
(219 points)
Posted by InstrumentCrazy

It really depends on the person,but I love my split E key.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    01:00 on Sunday, February 28, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

"But if you have trouble with high E, you're going to have trouble with high F# too, and there's no common mechanism to fix that one."

On my off days, I use RH middle finger for F#.

<Added>

I mean high F# - many conservatory students told me they were taught to use middle finger for high F# nowadays in conservatory, including my friend who studies with Michel Debost in Oberlin college. :)

<Added>

use middle finger also lower the pitch down.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    02:20 on Sunday, February 28, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

Kate, you are welcome. There is nothing special they had said about it, but they said they find that Brannen's G insert design is the best design than Donut or other makers' design,
http://www.brannenflutes.com/PICTURES/insert_G.jpg

Because Brannen's G insert helped high E and at the same time also minimized the stuffiness and intonation problem on A-key and other notes. It's a perfect balance, bravo to Brannen design they said.

They said they experimented with other shapes without good results:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-1.jpg (copy Powell's E-facilitator)
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-2.jpg
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-3.jpg

Finally, they copied Brannen Brothers' moon-shape, and it gave perfect balance on tone/intonation/high E:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-4-5.jpg

First, you cut a round circle shape out of an aluminum sheet or Pepsi Coke Can(they find it the best). Then, use tape to draw the shape you want to cut:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-4-1.jpg

Cutting the moon shape is the hardest thing to do, they said:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-4-2.jpg
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-4-3.jpg

Insert paper towel into the flute tube, then glue the moon shape piece in the key-hole, then wait until the glue is 80% dried, clean all the glue oozed before completely dried:
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/pyrioni15/method-4-4.jpg


Re: Split E ..so much important?    05:00 on Sunday, February 28, 2010          

contra448
(771 points)
Posted by contra448

'However the combination of in-line G keys and split E can be mechanically disastrous, with the Bb key inclined to jam if the G key is firmly closed.'

I have never come across this in 16 years of repairing flutes & do not understand why it should be so.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    05:13 on Sunday, February 28, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

If there is anything I would never do to my beloved flute is to glue such a piece of moon inside one of its a holes.


Re: Split E ..so much important?    05:16 on Sunday, February 28, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

"On my off days, I use RH middle finger for F#."

I did not know that trick. Do you mean pressing both RH middle and ring fingers at the same time?. F# 3rd is the most difficult for me of all.


   








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