"I believe the Forza headjoint IS made for Pearls professional level flutes."

OK here's a case where I can wear my Pearl Hat..

The Forza headjoint is made in Taiwan and was made for the Intermediate Dolce/Elegante series. It is also available to limited dealers on the Quantz series in the USA.

The Forza is often confused with the Forte Headjoint. The Forte is one of our more popular pro headjoints and made in the Japan Pro Flute workshop. The Forza is a completely different cut and taper and similar in basic design to a Sheridan headjoint. As a result it is very popular among those seeking a better headjoint before getting into a full blown pro model. It's a Pro Design but made in our Taiwan factory. Each one is hand finished by one of the craftsmen there.

An upgrade to the F665 would be a Dolce or Elegante, The mechanism is slightly different and of better quality (heavier gauge more, finely sculpted keywork placement of adjusting screws, clutch style, etc...) given the same basic Pearl pinless design. The headjoint on that model is the same so you would be upgrading the body and mechanism, accessories, etc..

You could do another custom step up above that. I have paired a few pro headjoints on Dolces / Elegantes for various people. Still a good cost saving over even an entry level Japan made flute and a lot more performance. It's not a regular offering, you have to ask.

Above that, the world of Pro flutes is your oyster. We too off course make quite a few of pro flutes and each can be pretty custom or basic. You can get just about anything you want at that level for a price...

Joe B
Pearl Flutes

Wood headjoints, Have played a bunch, lots of different ones out there. Again it's the same rat race to find the one you like..

Joe,

Thank you for the info-

How do you feel the Pearl 665 special edition ranks next to my Di Zhao 700 ?

other than the fact that the Di Zhao has a silver body & the Pearl is plated

Personally - I can't see or feel a difference in quality

Both play on the loud side - with plenty of tone colour.......I happen to like the overall playability of the pearl with the pinless mechanism however.

Above and beyond what I am currently playing - what would be the next step up where Pearl is concerned ?

I guess that takes me into the professional level of Pearl flutes then...........

Of which I have zero experience-

What's been your experience with these professional level flutes - and which one do you prefer or recommend to prospective buyers like me.

I don't think it's "nonsense" at all to ask a poster to disclose pertinent information to all other posters -- long-time members as well as new members. To think it's "nonsense" is the height of arrogance.

Travel......

Chill out man

As you can see - it doesn't bother me in the least if Joe TELLS me he works for Pearl or NOT

You seem to be implying that Joe has a hidden agenda - which I do not believe is the case at all

RELAX.....have a beer....go kick the neighbors dog

SD203, it doesn't really matter how you feel or react personally. it is simply common sense that posters giving advice about purchases and sales also disclose their affiliations. You might not agree, but that's okay.

And I'm perfectly chilled out -- thanks for your concern!

Travel

Whatever issue you have with Joe B - settle it without posting your complaints on my thread.

I am trying to have a serious discussion here - which you are more than welcome to throw in your two cents - Concerning the topic I started.

But as far as declaring affiliations etc....... leave that out of my thread if you please.

Since this is my thread...I have already stated that I do not have an issue with Joe - his affiliation with Pearl - whether he declares it or not - WHATEVER

Maybe I'm a Japanese Jet Pilot - with ties to Powell flutes....married to the daughter of the president of Haynes flutes -

That belongs in the catagory of - SO WHAT !!!

Joe isn't making a profit off his advice as far as I can tell

And even if he did...that still doesn't mean he needs to declare his affiliation every time he offers advice or comments on a thread or particular post.

I am well aware that Joe B works for Pearl - He is a professional. I appreciate his help and advice....

As I do your advice - you don't have to declare to me - who you are to have a discussion with me -

Either I take your advice - or I don't

Joe never said I had to heed everything he said where flutes are concerned.

So let's STOP this bickering - agree to disagree - and move on.

I want to change the subject anyway......my next post will be about headjoints

Please feel free to weigh in on the topic........

I still think you need a beer.......kicking the neighbors dog is optional however

You're new. That's fine. But you'll soon realize that nobody OWNS a thread here. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think you can bully other posters into NOT posting in a certain place. We post what we think when we think it.

And you'll also soon learn that creating multiple threads asking about new flutes and new headjoints and "oh, what should I buy?"-type questions will get you pretty much nowhere. The most experienced posters will respond that you can't expect reliable responses from anonymous people on any given day. The following is the only good advice you can hope for:

YOUR experiences with as many flutes, headjoints, riser materials, and so on will be the only reliable (and thus best) way to decide what your next flute should be.

Continuing to ask people what you should buy, especially now that forum membership and posting is at a low point (with fewer experienced people posting these days compared to a few years ago), will just waste your time and possibly lead you to make a decision that's not right FOR YOU.

And, once again: Do a search of the forum threads. Your questions have repeatedly been asked over the years, with dozens and dozens of threads having different responses, contradictory responses, responses from 13-year-olds who have been playing for one year, and -- yes -- even useless and untrustworthy information.

Listen dopey

don't tell me what to write - or post on here

and since I started this particular thread - I don't appreciate you coming on here and hyjacking it to push your moral hi ground garbage

get off your soapbox - keep your opinions to yourself

and if I want to ask advice about flutes...headjoints...or the size of bigfoots nike sweater - I will do it

you're a royal pain in the ass buddy

Now do me a favor - go dig yourself a hole and jump in it

We have seen "new" people like you come and go from this forum over the years. Bullies who attack others don't last long after the initial thrill of imagined power wears off.

And I'll continue posting what I want -- where and when I want. No thread belongs to anyone here.

If you get two or three recommendations or responses about flutes, headjoints, and materials from anonymous individuals on the Internet, will that seriously help you determine your needs? That's just so juvenile. But go for it!

Not trying to be a troll here, just want to know some things and am posing some questions ....

Why would any tech not like to work on Pearls? The conventional flute knock pins are a pain to remove and install and that task does pose a risk if the tool you use for the purpose slips. (Yes I know, flute techs usually use a specialized combination die-punch-vice to minimize this risk, but "some" techs still use a free-handed punch and hammer approach, with the key not locked down in a vice of any kind.) Pearl stack keys come apart with a single tiny allen wrench. No risky procedures or expensive tooling involved.

In the same vein ... and like the above, this is not a trollistic rhetorical question ... I'd like to know if the traditional knock-pin approach actually has any advantages over pinless, and what they are. Offhand, I can still think of a few additional advantages of the pinless approach.

Travel.Joe-
"Ladies you're both beautiful so shut the hell up"
Just let everyone do their own thing kay . Jeeze people this guys asking for help and you all are hissing like a bunch of cats. Btw I tried a pearl, loved it, keywork a little clinky but gorgeous sound.

Reality check:

SD203, evflute17, and flewt are the ONLY posters who have used words such as the following in this thread:

dopey
garbage
royal pain in the ass
shut the hell up
ladies
cats
hissing
trolls

I'd like to know if the traditional knock-pin approach actually has any advantages over pinless, and what they are. Offhand, I can still think of a few additional advantages of the pinless approach.

There are no mechanical advantages to the traditional pinned mechanism I can think of. Pinned and pinless are just different. If there is any advantage, you would need to specify the particular pinless design. Some are more complicated to put back together compared to a pinned mechanism. Others are just as easy.

It would be a lot easier to identify the disadvantages of a pinned mechanism.

Joe B

Joe, thank you for your pertinent reply. I may be wrong but my impression was that Pearl is still currently the only flutemaker offering the pinless design from its entry-level models on up. I have no special beefs against the conventional pinned design but I do think the pinless approach is more robust (at least in theory), less exposed to wear or binding. I've taken a couple of Pearls apart completely and they went back together fairly easily with no signs of user error.

Another question: Isn't a headjoint considered hand-cut if the craftsman uses a scraper to under- and over-cut the embouchure hole? Or is there something more involved with the use of the words "hand-crafted" or "hand-cut"?

Along the lines of the last postr...Joe - what exactly HAS been done to Hand Finish the Forza headjoint ?

The flute is great by the way....the Headjoint works very well for me.

I am very impressed with the overall quality of the 665

For me - it turned out to be a happy medium - so to speak....just as good as the Di Zhao 700 as far as I'm concerned.

Do you happen to know what differences there are between the two ? I am referring to the manner in which each is made. Is the forza embouchure hole machine cut - and THEN finished by hand - I was under the assumption the Di Zhao embouchure hole was completely cut / shaped by hand

Obviously....I am in error - can you please explain what goes on when a technician sits down and goes to work on shaping the embouchure hole.