Why does trombonists after trumpet solos almost always dissapoint? They play weak and noninterresting solos with almost no cool licks!! Talking about the "great legends of jazz trombone". Some of them should really for once try to battle out trumpet players.
Listen to Blue train, Curtis Fuller gets wacked by Lee morgan!!!

Always something wrong with the "legends", j.j.johnson can suck my dick. He plays really boring. There are only a handfull of guys who impress: Frank Rosolino on his live playing, although he repeats himself alot. Gary Valente is Crazy, but then again interresting to listen to.

Bob McChesney plays really fast, but booring notes.

Time lay out what you don't like about the Pro's!!!

so... care to post a recording of yourself and all your masterful playing?
it's about music, man. if people out there aren't making music you like, then dammit, go make that music yourself.
all those players you mentioned are great players. i'm sorry you feel that way about them.
i'm anxious to hear your recording... so i can learn how to play.
and if you can't play up to the level you're !***!ing and moaning about, get your ass in the practice room until you can.

It was never my intention to get angry coments back, but then again I can understand why people react the way they do.
The thread was ment to provoke, but there is no one who actually talks about what they don't like about the masters.
I'm not saying that I am a living trombone legend, I just enlighten the fact that people who listens to trombonist solos usually are playing the trombone themselfs. Mainly Jazz trombone solos that is. Why doesn't other instruments borow and use trombone licks in the same scale that trombonists borow and use for example trumpet licks?

WOW!!!!!!!....ugh....wow......WOW............


Frank rosolino boring? I think not..yet he repeats on 7 minute solo but other than that, that boy is ridiculous.

Listen to Robin Eubanks. He is crucial. SO is Wycliffe Gordon, Vincent Gardner, Vincent Chandler, and George Bohanon.

I don't know what else to say...

Some of you guys have got to have som issues with how the pro's play trombone.. I think they all have some qualities, but ther's always something wrong with them.

to quote Joe Jackson (bandleader and lead trombonist of The Airmen of Note)
"Never assume you've got good enough ears to tell how good you are or how bad someone else is. If you can live without the crutch of opinion, you just might learn something."
seriously...
what are you accomplishing by bashing other people's playing? you are setting a really poor example for people. it's no wonder why professional players don't come here to share their knowledge.

So.. Never listen to other musicians and think about what they can improve to make their solos more interresting????
Think it, just don't say it.. Is this what this is all about??

The pro's have got to stand some criticism.. I'm not yelling it in their faces, just discussing them with friends.
I actually learn a lot by hearing what people think is wrong with other musicians.. Helps me find a playing style that people actually like(Additional to the way I play and don't care what people are thinking.) The main goal is to be the best..

hmmm...I say criticism is good; however, saying that they're solo's are boring? Frank only repeats himself like I said on one solo. he has some others that are kick butt. I'll say this: go to iTunes and buy Curtis Fuller's "New Trombone." If you think that sucks, make your CD and I'll be buying it.

I will agree that sax and trumpet players play way more interesting solos than most trombone players. The trombonist has a difficult time due to the nature of the instrument. He spends so much time learning how to play technically well that the interesting harmonies of jazz progressions gets left out the window.

That being said, Curtis Fuller's solo on "Blue Train" is one of the most incredible trombone solos of all time, and JJ Johnson's solo on "Laura" is another classic. There is some good stuff to be learned from transcribing those two solos.

There are only a handful of jazz trombone players that I enjoy listening to now. Among them are Steve Davis, David Gibson, Conrad Herwig, and Wycliffe Gordon.

My complaint about Curtis Fuller is while he played some very good solos, there are also some crappy ones in there too. Listen to his solo on "Mode for Joe" on the album of the same name. Curtis basically has two ideas which he spans over two minutes, basically runs out of ideas. Meanwhile, Joe Henderson simply blows his away on the same tune.

I spend most of my time listening to the jazz solos of basically every other instrument besides the trombone, and marvelling at the genius of some of their lines and rhythmic ideas, wondering if the trombone can ever do such a thing.

As for the amount of my practice time as a trombone player? Most of it is spent practicing classical stuff, so that may have something to do with my opinion.

you honestly need to shop around a little. it depends on what kind of music it is. I can find you some pretty sick jazz solos. True, I have never heard one decent classical solo.

steve thanks for sticken up 4 the greats


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If you don't like anyof the solos, you should write one.

I'm not going to weigh in on this one,but i will say that it is one of the most provocative and intertsting debates on here.I'll stay tuned!!

While I wouldn't question the greatness of any particular player over another, let alone their solos, I think the definition of musicallity comes into play here.

I personally have never been a huge fan of many of the trombonists listed in previous remarks. I do acknowledge a great contribution of each though. I think the trend toward a less "musical" and more "technicallly" based solo is not where the strength of our instrument is. Musicallity is, in my opinion, playing with the melody and embellishing around it. It is in swinging hard and making a statement in your playing without showing everything you know in one solo. You shouldn't have to play 32 choruses to show what you know. Carl Fontana was so good, it is said he never seemed to even feel compelled to state his name when playing in show bands around Vegas. He just played to the best of his ability.

I watched Al Grey cut the hell out of younger player's in one well structured chorus...including me on one occassion. He was 72 yrs old...I was 25. (Harumph...) Even Bob Havens from the Lawrence Welk Orch. played a most creative Teagarden influenced trombone.

J.J. and others cleared the way for all jazz trombonists outside of a large emsemble, but sometimes in a search ahead we must look back to Jack Teagarden who largely orginated false slide positions, Lawrence Brown who introduced speed on the slide, Tyree Glenn, who played perfectly in-tune even with a plunger and mute, Trummy Young who could blow bricks out of a wall, Dick Nash who can do it all, Tommy Dorsey who plays the prettiest ballad and virtually created the singing trombone in jazz.

The list is endless, and to hang all of our hopes on J.J. and Curtis Fuller...Bill Watrous or Steve Turre...or Miff Mole and Vic Dickenson is foolhearty at best. I would suggest seeking out solos from all of the above and many more to find how this instrument has evolved and perhaps some inspiration can be found. It is a sure bet you'll find that Colman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge had some solos that were eclipsed by their trombone playing counterparts.

Technique and speed is nice, but tone and a nice clean solo is where its really at. Remember...Artie Shaw said it best "You can't educate the public from the bandstand".

I love 'em all...some more than others...but I can find "greatness" in all of these trombonists. I surely have some work to do to "catch them". By the way...I play trumpet too...occassionally. I'm not too interested in that instrument anymore as I just want to play a nice ballad and have a pretty tone. To hell with all that other technical business...but I still have admiration for the likes of Bob McChesney...and ever Rosolino.

Well jeez, maybe because the trombone has a slide and trumpets/sax's have buttons and valves...Obviously a trumpet player will have an advantage because he can go through 20 notes in 2 seconds! But as far as some trombonists go with the limitations of their instruments is amazing. You think J.J. johnson is bad??? I'd like to see your outstanding solo...

If you'd like to hear a trombone out due a trumpet then just listen to Bill Watrous's Fourth Floor Walk Up. Danny Stiles plays a very exiting trumpet solo on this track, but you tell me who's is more memorable or exiting. There are alot more examples I could come up with like, Zip City, where he (Bill Watrous) out does a baritone sax and a guitar. I could go on and point out other great trombonists' that play every bit as "exiting" as do there trumpet playing cousins,or sax playing counter parts. But it seems to me when you make a statement like "Bob McChesney, fast but boring notes" well you're not really listening anyway.