Hi!

I play bassoon piano and violin, but I hate violin (not hate per se but you know what I mean) and want to play trombone instead, and quit violin. However I've been playing violin since 2001, I'm wondering if its possible learn trombone [extremely] quickly and to the standard I play violin at. - with regards to clefs, I can read bass clef pretty fluently and bassoon demands tenor clef as well. I'm aming to be studying 5th grade AMEB/Trinity by next year.

Also what are the good brands, how do you spot a crap trombone, mouthpeices, [marching], bore size, pricing, rental, embrochure-everything I need to know would be appreciated.

With regard to bore size I know as far as 0.500" is beginner/eccentric jazz, 0.525 is intermediate/pro jazz and 0.547 is Orchestral Bore and they get mellower as the bores grow... The ensemble experience I'll have will probably be Symphonic Wind and Marching/Military Band.

!!!~Thank you~!!!

private teacher can explain a lot of the stuff on here. The horns I would comment on them, but theres some on a recent post about a new horn. But brands like Bach, Conn, Getzen, Edwards, anything along those lines, just not kastrul.

A couple things...
1. I'm always amused by people thinking that for some reason trombone is an instrument you can just pick up and play so easily. Trust me you aren't the first to make that assumption. You didn't learn violin or basson extremely quickly. Don't expect any different on trombone. Brass playing is a different animal entirely, requiring specialized development of muscles in your face that you're not used to using. Brass players spend years developing a great sound. Slide technique takes a lot of work. Trombone players have to tongue more than any other instrument due to the nature of the slide. The music reading and theory knowledge you have now will, however, shorten the learning curve in that respect.
2. You mention your experience will be Marching/Military... how do you plan on getting experience by playing in a military band? Last I heard, you needed to audition for military bands. You haven't even started learning to play yet???
3. Good brands.. there are many. If you see a horn you're interested in, ask around. If no one has heard of it, that should raise a red flag for you. King, Yamaha, older Bach, Conn, all make decent horns. There is no reason to go pro level at this point in time.
4. Bore size has nothing to do with how "professional" a horn is. It has to do with the sound you want. There are professional grade horns in all bore sizes.
5. Bottom line.. get a private teacher. Don't rush your progress. If you try to do too much to fast, you can actually injure the muscles in your face.
Good luck.

Musicman...
Just out of curiosity... why not a Kanstul? (I'm assuming that's what you were trying to say but spelled it kinda funny). From what I understand, they make a pretty decent horn. I know their trumpets are darn good horns, as some of my coworkers use them and get a great sound out of them.

Thanks for that info. I don't mean a proper military band-I'm talking about the type of music. Additionally our school's Marching Band is part of the Cadet Corps and members of the Australian Defense Force preside over the parades at times.

I didn't learn violin really quickly because I am really bad at it , but Piano and Bassoon I skipped alot of grades-I started bassoon this year and I'll probably do grade 4 AMEB.

Would trombone be harder than bassoon?

I think thats the same horn brand I'm thinking of. The ones from China. I've heard a lot of stories from people thats gotten them off Ebay and they've broken apart within 1-2 days. Plus I'm just telling information that I've heard on here.

Musicman, Kanstul horns are NOT chinese, they are made in Arizona. You must be thinking of some other brand. Remember, just because you read it here doesn't make it true.
http://www.kanstulmusic.com/index.htm

As for whether trombone would be harder than bassoon? We have no way of knowing what your aptitudes are. Just expect progress to be slower than you want it to be (isn't it always???)
Trombone has challenges the bassoon doesn't. And vice versa.
If you are going to be playing a lot of marches, you'll probably have some challenges. March music tends to give the trombones far more action (taxing action no less) than other genres of music.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all about people switching over to the dark side , I just want to make sure you realize that it's got its challenges.

Steve has some great advice on just about every topic on this forum. Listen to him. He knows what he's talking about.

As for what's harder between trombone and bassoon, those kinds of questions always make me laugh. Flute vs. piano? Trumpet vs. tenor sax? Percussion vs. viola? You can't really compare. It's like apples vs. oranges. When somebody asks me those types of questions, I just say that all of the instruments are difficult.

And as for Kanstul, those are terrific horns. I tried some at Dillon Music, and I was tempted to trade my Rath in for one. I thought that the Kanstuls felt and sounded similar to the nice old Conns, but easier to play.

Thanks for the advice again

Here is another complication. My HOD of Music wants me to get an Associate diploma in Violin (ATCL).

I'm just wondering, those $100 horns on eBay-what is the catch?

There is no rule that says you can't learn both instruments. Besides, ultimately, you're the one who has to live with your decision, not your teacher.
As for the hundred dollar horns....
If someone told you they were about to buy a hundred dollar violin, what would you tell them? It's the same everywhere. You get what you pay for. Those hundred dollar trombones generally sound like garbage, and usually fall apart very easily. Repairmen don't have parts for them, so when they break, you're out of luck.
Every now and then, someone has a great old horn their kid used to play back in the day and are selling it for a hundred bucks not realizing what they have. These sweet deals are very few and far between though. Caveat Emptor.

Yes, I think you are right about what you said-Its not him thats going to be stuck with a diploma I don't want. And then it will be 'Oh you already have ATCL, why are you quitting?'

The reason I wanted to start trombone was because I play Bass Trombone on my bassoon in Band and I thought it would make far more sens e to play the instrument. I just marched the bassoon at the ANZAC day parade and that killed the bassoon from water damage.

What effect does having a different bell (Rose Brass, Gold Brass) have on the timbre on the instrument and what do you use the F trigger for?

it was the $100 dollar horns off ebay i was taking about, i thought they were called kastruls, my mistake that hopefully won't happen anymore.

Anyways...
The more copper--if i remember it correctly--makes that tone more dark...I believe...But the triggers just make it able to get different pitchs that are normally way out on the slide and make it able to bring them in to the first 4 positions-even though there are still some alternates there in the first 4. But if you get on Conn instrument factory's website, they have a slide postioning chart for you.

The technical answer is, the F attachent, when engaged, changes the trombone from a Bb instrument to and F instrument, dropping the fundamental pitch a perfect fourth lower. The harmonics on the horn shift accordingly.
In practical terms, most high school players and younger only seem to use the trigger to play their low c's in first position. In reality , it opens up quite a few alternate positions as well as some lower notes than are possible on a straight tenor. On a straight tenor these notes would have to be faked out of the horn, which is possible, but only a master can get them out with a useable tone quality.
You will find in quite a bit of solo literature, especially more contemporary stuff, that notes like low Eb's, D's, C#'s and C's are getting written for the tenor player.
The Ewazen Sonata has a low D, the Grondahl has a low Db, Rachmaninoff's Elegy has low Eb's.
If you ever wanted to tackle the Bach Cello Suites, an F attachment would be a necessity.
Now, all this said... Do you, as a beginner really need one? Nope. Not really. Unless you have really short arms. At this stage of the game, it will be a while before you can come anywhere close to playing notes in the trigger range, and you need to learn to use 6th and 7th positions before starting to take trigger shortcuts. If someone offers you a trigger horn, don't necessarily turn it away, but don't feel you need to go out and spend more money just to have one.

Thanks for the forensic explanation of the F attatchment

I have started trombone now. I have a Besson 600 (Its funny, i can tell the difference between that and my friend's yamaha).
Although it is quite different to anything I've played i don't find it extremely diffificult, and I'm just doing a few first grade pieces now.
The trouble is that the slide doesn't move smoothly and its actually quite slow. What can I do to rectify that?

Thanks for all your help