Techniques and so ?

    
Techniques and so ?    00:39 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

iceb
(5 points)
Posted by iceb

I have been taking rythmical singing leasons
for 7 years and then I changed to taking
classical opera leasons instead for 3. So now I am able to sing both but I have a question.

When I sing opera I can do it for a really long time without getting tired but when I try do the same with a pop song I get a soar throat and dry mouth after a couple of songs and have to
stop. I am a bass barritone

What is wrong ?
How can I be able to sing as long as I can
classical with pop songs too ?


All The Love
iceb


Re: Techniques and so ?    02:12 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

ottkaskjr
(51 points)
Posted by ottkaskjr

I think the reason why you last longer in opera and less in pop is that opera and classical singing anyway needs a proper singing technique, which as I understand you have, but in case to make pop sound as pop singing nowadays should sound, then it is essential to lose the principles of classical singing, which includes right breathing, open throat and overall relaxation of your body. But I may be wrong, maybe you have same discipline with pop.


Re: Techniques and so ?    02:51 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

iceb
(5 points)
Posted by iceb

Yes I see that is right.

I have discussed this problem with
many masters both pro rythmical singers and pro opera singers and there are two opinions that they express.

Opinion 1 .

You HAVE TO choose sides . You choose
classical and remain singing it for
the rest of your life. Because when you only do that you do not get that much air in your voice and high compression and a lot of tone. The air kills your voice eventually if you sing anything else than opera where you have not got any air on your voice.

The only right singing technique is
used in opera and only in opera and when you use it your voice will last a life time.


Opinion 2

This is an opinion I have heard from an italian singing school. They feal that as long as you are using their old italian technique you can sing like that all your life withliut loosing your voice or breaking it down and both singing pop and opera too.

Therefore my question is really what
techniques should I use when I sing
pop ?

I feal I have to have to diffent techniques because when I use my opera technique in a pop song the vocal and recording and voice become all non pop sounding. Get a kind of a opera pop sound in my voice......

Therefore I have to create a new technique only for pop and musicals and so on which protects my voice musch more than the one I use now.

What about you guys are there anyone singing both opera and rythmical and how do you cope ?


iceb





Re: Techniques and so ?    07:18 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

ottkaskjr
(51 points)
Posted by ottkaskjr

I agree that you'll have to choose between pop and opera. There are also many famous opera singers who sing some pop songs by using opera voice like Sarah Brightman, Bryn Terfel and Andrea Bocelli and the result is wonderful. Of course it depends on a type of pop music, 'cause in no way opera can fit to RnB or hiphop. I think skilled classical singers with good pop intuition can mould their voice perfectly into required atmosphere.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF6EsWEgrxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdxIZJq2gEo

But still if you want to be an opera singer, then you should stay only in opera tone and technique in order to achieve good singing intuition, because switching from one style to another is very disturbing and you may never get to the right feeling.



Re: Techniques and so ?    08:47 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

iceb
(5 points)
Posted by iceb

Hi there

I am confused here.

Do not know these singers.
Are they classical singers both

of them ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF6EsWEgrxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdxIZJq2gEo

The one from x factor where he songs
Bridge Over Troubled water is actually
very cool and pop like but the other
one is an example of how my voice sounds now when I sing pop with my
classical opera technique.

You have to remove the vibrato when
you sing pop and in opera you have
to maximize it and that he does not
do that in the performance with that
Bryan guy.

In conclussion I think you are wrong.
I think that as long as you are grounded enough in your opera technique then you CAN sing pop too and I actually have heard a LOT of opera singers do this for a long time
with out any voice decay or damage what so ever. They performed a lot in
both musicals and pop too.

As mentioned I know a whole school
based on italian song technique where
they say the same as well for all their students.

Currently these are my priorities in
term of what I love to sing

1. Musicals
2. pop
3. arias from operas
4. swing
5. rock

So what I need is to attend that
school so I can learn to use their
techniques when I sing pop and musicals and use the right effect
for it on my classical technique.




iceb


Re: Techniques and so ?    09:13 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

axcelson
(4 points)
Posted by axcelson

I'm afraid I disagree with the idea that there is an essential distinction between classical and pop singing in terms of technique. Clearly, they are often worlds apart stylistically, and certain types of pop singing (e.g., punk, thrash metal, etc.) do indeed use different technique, but in the vast majority of cases the technique seems to me identical.

Singing requires breath support, and good tone requires an open throat, relaxation in the upper body, and avoidance of nasality and breathiness. Now, there are times when a pop singer decides to go breathy or nasally in a particular part of a song, or in an entire song (Bob Dylan around Nashville Skyline went nasally for a portion of his career!), but these are stylistic decisions that a singer with good technique can choose to do at any time.

The point: Good technique is good technique, regardless of style; but singers will often choose to do things in pop music that opera singers would never do. This doesn't at all suggest that learning good technique is a liability for pop singers--it is rather a foundation they can break from where and when they choose. Even in the extreme case of punk/thrash singing, I don't see how learning operatic technique would prevent one from screaming when one chooses.

No need to choose sides, methinks.

Best,
Jersey Jack


Re: Techniques and so ?    09:49 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

ottkaskjr
(51 points)
Posted by ottkaskjr

Ok I think that everyone has a bit truth in their opinion. I just trust my experiences.

"Even in the extreme case of punk/thrash singing, I don't see how learning operatic technique would prevent one from screaming when one chooses."

Of course it does not prevent anyone doing something, but I would te like to see with my own eye an opera singer who tends to scream.

As I said: "Skilled classical singers with good pop intuition can mould their voice perfectly into required atmosphere." - that sentence concludes all our opinions, at least I hope so

Maybe we just understand the relation between pop and opera a bit differently + I have never been able to sing pop music because I am bass (Barry White times are over)

Anyway, I wish you all the best.


Re: Techniques and so ?    10:00 on Sunday, March 23, 2008          

iceb
(5 points)
Posted by iceb

Well I do agree with Jersey but
I do not agree that opera singers scream. No but that was what I though when I started learning opera 3 years ago. Now I can hear the difference and my hearing got a lot better too learning opera for those 3 years. There is just a high level of comppression. Furthermore not all operas are in Forte ( the loud way of singing ) and this is another myths for instance you have lieder wchich is a very soft kind of way of singing opera. Now I have looked into this Rhydian guy and he look to he almost like me in he 30s and have taking opera singing leasons and he even is a bass barrittone like me so if he can learn to sing pop that naturally and also opera so can I .

Just need to practice using my pop
effects with my classical technique.


All The loce
iceb


Re: Techniques and so ?    10:34 on Monday, March 24, 2008          

axcelson
(4 points)
Posted by axcelson

Sure, we do agree, I think. I am not aware of any opera singer who screams on stage, but I bet they do at home when they try to get their kids to school on time! I think proper technique for singers is like learning to draw for artists--I may decide to go abstract, to wrap mountains, to show videos of screeching clowns, but I don't believe that learning to draw is ever a liability for artists. Similarly, proper technique is not a liability for punk singers. (Though learning it could, I guess, be a waste of time if they are really so committed to only one kind of music.)

Anyway, the thing that drew my attention was the notion that one has to CHOOSE. I don't think this is true.

But as I write this I'm straining to think of an operatically trained singer who truly has crossed over to pop. Sure, Domingo has made pop records, Andrea Bocelli, Josh Grobin, etc., but they do all sound like opera singers, don't they? Perhaps I'm wrong? Perhaps there is something about intense training in opera that makes one unable to sing rock'n'roll?

If so, I don't believe it is something as basic as breath control, looseness, avoidance of breathiness and nasality, etc. It must be something learned at more advanced stages. Or maybe they just choose not to sing like anything but opera singers?

Best,
Jersey Jack


Re: Techniques and so ?    10:41 on Monday, March 24, 2008          

iceb
(5 points)
Posted by iceb

Hi again

To Jersey: No you are not wrong.

I agree that domingo is not that
good of singing pop because he does not use the pop effect but keeps his original sounding opera technique with the opera effect. You have to change and practice the pop effect to get a good pop result and that is why he does not get a good pop result.

However I have heard a lot of singers
that can do both believagle and much better than domingo.

But do not misunderstand me he is a REAL MASTER at singing opera.


All The love
iceb


   




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