I know I'm being a bit vague here, but does anyone know about some good books that would be useful when composing. I'm looking for books with lots of music theory in. I've got some basic stuff just not anything on composing or different styles, e.g. writing for an orchestra. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I agree with Norby, no one can learn the full art of composition from any book, but you can learn techniques, such as different aspects, for lack of a better word, such as harmony, structure, and forms, like sonatas to symphonies, with essentially are orchestral sonatas. Music theory is the basis in the only "composition" book I have read (The Complete Idiot's Guide to Composition by Michael Miller), and it enhances what I already knew. My newest compositions are more complex and lengthy than what I have previously composed (such as my pieces I have uploaded), and sound much more professional to the ear. You can only learn true composition by practicing different forms of it, even throwing yourself into new territory to gain a personal style and exercise your skills (like trying your hand at jazz/rock/pop if you are more classical, or different and more sophisticated key/meter choices.) I still recommend Miller's book because it gives you practice pages after each new section (a major help to re-inforce what you're learning). Work outside the norm, and you'll find yourself gaining insight to your own style and refining your skills.

Thanks, that's basically what I was after. I just need to pick up on more theory. Thanks.

I think there is a whole world being missed here. There are whole different ways to compose that have very little to do with theory and reading a book. Composing is not just music theory. Remember, sometimes it's best to completely drop the theory, lose it. It is not always your friend. Theory is the scientific approach. What about something much different, not better, not inferior. The ear is a great tool! Also, playing from the heart, may mean you have no idea what notes you are actually playing at all. I believe if you have to play and remember the mechanics, and compose using theories, modes, rules of intervals, leading tones, etc. you are missing some of the most wonderful things about music.

The art of music is not a science. There is no right and wrong. I think when you rely too much on any one tool, you may find you weaken the overall composition. See how a piece makes your feel before you ever commit a single note to a ledger line on a piece of sheet music. Play the whole piece and try different things until you "feel" the emotion you are trying to convey. The mechanics will fall into place then just fine.

Exactly. Well said. You cannot expect that by following theory and rules to a tee that you'll be able to convey everything. Work outside the box and do what feels right. The way I see it, rules, standards, and theory only give you a basic outline to the whole picture. The shape of it, like a rectangle will become a building or a home. It takes the ingenuity of the composer to fill in things like the "furniture" and "decor" of this "building", if you will.

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For instrumentation, which you seem to also be looking for, try Berlioz's "Treatise on Instrumentation". You can find it for free on IMSLP. Otherwise, there's always the Rimsky-Korsakov.

Thanks for the comments. One of the reasons I need theory is to help me with theory examinations, which are compulsory for grade 6 music examinations in the UK.

I completely agree with what you're all saying about composition, that is how I compose. Basically I improvise whatever comes to mind, and when I suddenly get a new idea which I like I develop it. But then there's only so much this can do with the different ideas. When I feel I have enough to use in a piece I use Sibelius to record these ideas. But you have to keep in mind that instruments all have different personalities and these can also be used to great effect. So using the sampling software that comes free with Sibelius 4 I can get a better idea of what I can do. When ever I work on a piece I know if something sounds "wrong" to me. I then change it, until I am satisfied with my work. I can usually play my pieces on the piano, so I rarely compose pieces that are harder than what I can play. This is usually because I have to play the piece to work on it (I do most of the work on the piano rather than on Sibelius).

I wasn't really specific with the term theory. I'm looking for something that will help use my ideas to greater effects. Basically so I can embellish and orchestrate. I really want to learn how to orchestrate properly, because I'm new and don't really know where to start. I'm thinking more of how to write for large groups rather than the small groups. Anyone can compose of course, but how advanced the composition is depends on the proficiency of the composer. I suppose it's not about following the theory exactly, but having an understanding of it. Techniques used within an orchestra really. Also, theory helps you understand what different symbols and expressions mean, which is helpful for both playing and composing.