Hi, haven't been on this forum for quite a while.

The horn I'm using now is a Hans Hoyer 4802 in unlacquered yellow brass, about 12 years old, that I've played for about a year and a half. Recently, my teacher has suggested that I probably need to change to an Alexander. She specifically said that a 403 would suit me better than a 103. Since I'm not all that familiar with Alex horns, what exactly is the the difference between these two models?

Anyway, I asked around and have a few horns that I can potentially try out. My question is, assuming that money is of no issue, would it be better to purchase a new or old Alex? To get a good new horn I will probably have to rely on connections to obtain one directly from Europe and I can't try it beforehand (the person choosing the horn is highly placed and very experienced though, totally reliable); the horn will also take a very long time to arrive. The great advantage is, of course, that the horn will be in mint condition when I start using it.

As for an old horn, I have a few choices available, even though they are all 103s. However, I'm worried about maintanence for the horns, since many are nearing 20 years in age. Of course the vast advantage is that I can change to the Alexander sooner, and also I can try out the horns myself.

So, which would be better, choosing a new or old instrument?

Which horn?

The 403 and the 103 are almost exactly the same horn. With the 403 they have moved the location of the change valve. Supposedly this new location (in the center of the horn on the backside) is suppsoed to make the horn better balanced in tone throughout the range.That is the only difference between the two horns.

If I was going to get an Alexander I would look into the model 200. The 200 is my favorite Alex model. And if you are playing on a HansHoyer I think you will like the 200 more than the 103 or 403. Why not stay with the Hoyer line?

Purchasing new or used.
Even though "someone qualified" might play the horn for you it is not going to be you and it is not going to be someone who knows you and your playing. Different horns will respond differently to different players and more importantly different equipment. When I test a horn for my students I don't use MY main mouthpiece, I use a mouthpiece similar to what my student is playing on.

I would suggest you purchase a horn you can test play to be sure you know what you are getting and are happy about it. A new horn will be "mint" yes, but it's true tone color will take months if not a year or more to realise. A used horn is mostly broken in already.

I have never purchased a new horn, except for my one custom hand built horn. And this was done after months and months of communication, and a couple of plane trips to sit down and play horn throughout the weekend with the maker. This way he knows how I play, what I want and what I need. AND I know what he makes, how he makes it. This offers synergy where we both benefit from the building of the horn.

My encouragement is to go used.

I would also go for a used one.
The problem with Alexander could be that as you're in the US, you will have a hard time trying a few different horns. They will send you some, but I bet these horns won't be too good, as they will keep the good ones in germany, and/or for the pros.
I live in germany and went to Alexander one time to test a few horns, and if you're not a well-known pro, you won't even get to the room where the good ones are. So I could have chosen between some mediocre ones, and ended up with not buying a horn.
The problem with a used Alex (especially 103) could be that there are very few good ones for sale; if ones gets a great 103, he won't sell it. And as the 403 is quite new, there aren'T many on the 2nd hand market.
Anyway, for a close look of the 403, go here:
http://www.rimskys-horns.com/nl/Alex403MLK.html
Or even better to the Alex homepage:
http://www.gebr-alexander.de/

Thanks for the replies.

Oh the valve placement of the 403 scares me! The case I use is an MB7, will that bottom valve be in danger if I do buy a 403?

Yeah I've heard of the biasness of the horns presented to the different players already, but if I buy a new horn the contact is the principal hornist of a very well-regarded European orchestra (not saying which one!) so the horns that he gets will be the very best in quality that Alexander has to offer. This biasness (as well as what hanswurst said) is also why I'm a little hesitant to buy a second-hand horn locally, since the actual quality of the horn might be less than if I were to buy a new one.

To JOhnlovermusic, why do you particularly like the 200? What are its characteristics distinct from the 103 that make you prefer it?

Oh and the reason I have to change instrument is because the school I'm going to practically uses Alexander exclusively and if I don't use an Alex, the sound will be much harder to blend, since Alex has that distinctive sound. The school does have Alex horns sitting around to be loaned to students who don't own an Alex, but apparently these horns are in really bad condition since no one plays them... everyone has their own!

Wow, I would like to be on a school where Alex horns just lie around!
Guess the gigbag problem won't be the main reason not to get a 403. Just send Alexander an email and ask which gigbags can be used for that horn, as they normally use the MB bags too.
The 200 is basically the same as the 1103, the main difference is the Schmetterkranz of nickel silver. Guess the difference between the 200 and the 103 (or 403) is the typical difference between Kruspe and Geyer wrap horns. As long as you don't plan to play in a german pro orchestra (where you just have to play a 103), you could get the 200.

Why I like the 200 -

I have heard many 103's and quite honestly just have come across one I liked. Usually inconsistent intonations and uneven scale. However, the few 200's I have come across I have liked everyone. They sound good and have a good scale. I think because the 200 was designed for the anniversary it may have had a little more attention given to it.

There it is - I have not seen every Alexander there is. The 103's I have seen are so-so in my opinion. The 200's I have seen (which have been only a few) actually got me to thinking about getting one.

Gig Bags, I don;t think you should have a problem with the 403 in your MB case.

I have an old Alex 103 that I bought from John Barrows in 1960. It was a great sounding horn until the valves gave out.Tried to have them retooled but they are still too sluggish. I now play an E.Schmid which is also a great horn with quick valves but I miss the Alex sound. Was wondering if anyone has ever had a complete valve cluster change out.Since they still make the 103s my thought was to someday have this done. Any ideas?

Changing the valve cluster - I think it is an excellent way to go. Not many people think about changing out the cluster. It can be expensive but you're getting an original spec'd unit. A really good technician can do a good job. Although I am curious why the valve job didn't go well. I like the vavle job in nickel because nickel prevents any of the corrosion or zincification from accumulating on the valve rotor.

I do know one horn player and repair person who has done many valve cluster changes. It might not be more than a good valve job.

I'm not sure I would go for a 200. They seem to be an awful lot of money for not an awful lot of improvement. As for your new vs old Alexanders, I have a brand new 103, bought to a certain degree "blind" (I didn't choose it but had a 3 week approval period) and it was perfect. I think a lot of the issues that Alexanders used to have with fluctuations in quality have been improved over the past years with better quality control in the factory itself, so you could argue that these days you are more likely to come across a bad used horn than a bad new one. Having said that, I know someone who is playing a 103 which is apparently pushing around 70 years ol) and I wouldn't hesitate in paying absolute top price for it, it is a gorgeous horn. As for the 403 vs 103 dilemna, never having played a 403 myself I couldn't really comment, but I would say that 103's are definitely the most popular choice over my side of the Atlantic!