I don't know these horns. Yep, horns are tremendously expensive. All are tried and tested designs. They are most likely of Asian build, that could be any number of countries. I've seen some instruments coming out of Vietnam and Korea that are pretty damn good. It really depends on the manufacturer. I saw an unbranded horn that looked exactly like Hoyer model offered by Mack Brass. Not saying it was, but they could be the same instrument, that came out of a similar distribution company. The action was coming apart (really bad mini-ball style links) and at least 3 of the brazing joints were pulling apart at just under 6 months. The material appeared crystallized, like someone had tried to solder at a low temperature of something. Don't know what, but it was coming apart. I'm happier telling people to find a decent used on from a reputable brand online and then spend a couple hundred fixing it up. Right now there's a Yamaha 662 with a starting bid of 699. I'd trust that more than the Mack Brass, just because it is a known quantity.