Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question

Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question

    
Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    08:27 on Saturday, June 02, 2018          

apkyburz
(3 points)
Posted by apkyburz

Hi,

Short question about Brahms 3, last mvmt:

The Horn in C, does it transpose down the octave or can it go that high?

If it's written in concert pitch, prof. horn players, how do you play this, do you carry a C horn with you?

Thanks,
Best,
AP


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    11:01 on Thursday, July 05, 2018          

phred
(150 points)
Posted by phred

I just think down a 4th. And, if you haven't done it in awhile, sometimes you gotta just get yourself together and play some stuff in C 'til your head is thinking that way. If someone has a horn crooked in C that is valved, they could certainly do that, but with that much drop, there'd have to be a lot of room to pull the valve slides to accommodate the greater bugle of the horn. I have a great single Geyer than is designed for playing in E or Eb by pulling out a slide a bit, and the main tuning slide pulls way out (plus all the valves) for Eb, but not beyond. To give you a short answer, practice.


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    11:12 on Thursday, July 05, 2018          

apkyburz
(3 points)
Posted by apkyburz

Nice. So, if you, as a modern horn player read it down a 4th and not up a 5th, then Brahms' C-horn is evidently written 8va above concert pitch.

Thanks! That helped.


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    10:23 on Monday, July 23, 2018          

Krzysz
(11 points)
Posted by Krzysz

No, we don't carry a C horn. Most of us play a double horn in F and Bb, but the key of the instrument is irrelevant in the 21st century and has been for at least a hundred years.

We are trained to read "normal" horn parts transposed in F - so notated a perfect fifth about the sounding pitch. When we see a part that's not in F, in our head we "see" the music in F to play it.


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    10:26 on Monday, July 23, 2018          

Krzysz
(11 points)
Posted by Krzysz

No, we don't carry a C horn. Most of us play a double horn in F and Bb, but the key of the instrument is irrelevant in the 21st century and has been for at least a hundred years.

We are trained to read "normal" horn parts transposed in F - so notated a perfect fifth above the sounding pitch. When we see a part that's not in F, in our head we "see" the music in F to play it.


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    15:20 on Saturday, July 28, 2018          

phred
(150 points)
Posted by phred

Just to clear up, completely aware that no one has a C horn, normally, but that it was once an option. We must all sight transpose, have a transposed part, write out our own transposed part, or play on a natural horn that is crooked in C. Brahms is right at that time of just after 1850 where crooked and valved horns were appearing, and may have still been playing with hand horn technique, so not unusual at that time. Certainly though, we're 99.999% all transposing now.


Re: Brahms 3 - (Non-)transposing Horn question    15:22 on Saturday, July 28, 2018          

apkyburz
(3 points)
Posted by apkyburz

Perfect! Thank you!


   




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