Double Horn Question

    
Double Horn Question    09:02 on Thursday, March 14, 2019          

Markal
(4 points)
Posted by Markal

Hello All, I am a trumpet player teaching the french horn. I have a peculiar situation with one of my student's horns. From what I've learned, the sequence of notes from middle C to F in the bottom line of the treble clef (written pitch) should be played as 0,1,0,1 without the thumb trigger, thus the F side. However, the only way to play this is by using the fingering for the Bb side, thus 0,12,2,0 (this is played without the trigger). When I use the trigger, I can play the sequence as 0,1,0,1 as for the F side. Am I missing something? It seems as though the F and Bb sides are swapped around, is this even possible? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Re: Double Horn Question    05:17 on Friday, March 15, 2019          

Scotch
(660 points)
Posted by Scotch

First I need to ask why you are teaching horn (that is, "French horn"--it's properly called just horn) if you don't play the horn. If you're a band director, that's one thing, but if you're attempting to give private lessons on horn, you need to stop.

In any case, written middle C (in other words sounding F) is the fourth harmonic on the F horn and thus fingered 000. Pushing the first valve, 100, lowers the fundamental to (written) Bb, which means the D a whole step above middle C can be taken as the fifth harmonic with this fingering. Obviously the next E is the fifth harmonic of the fundamental C, so we go back to 000. The following fifth is the sixth harmonic of the fundamental Bb, so F is thus 100.

On the other hand, written middle C is the third harmonic on the Bb horn, which means it can also be fingered 000. Pushing the first two valves down, 110, lowers the fundamental a minor third to (written) D, which means the D above middle C is can be taken as the fourth harmonic on the Bb horn. Pushing just the middle valve down lowers the fundamental to (written) E, which gives us the fourth harmonic and 010 for E above middle C. Finally, the following F is the fourth harmonic of the original fundamental, so we're back to 000.


Re: Double Horn Question    05:40 on Friday, March 15, 2019          

Scotch
(660 points)
Posted by Scotch

Sorry, I think I misread your question (because this site won't let you view questions while composing an answer). Are you saying 0,1,0,1 works on this particular horn both with and without the trigger pressed? If so, the obvious possibility is that the trigger is simply malfunctioning.


Re: Double Horn Question    05:50 on Friday, March 15, 2019          

Markal
(4 points)
Posted by Markal

Thank you for your response. The combination 0,1,0,1 only works with the trigger, without the trigger it can only be played as 0,12,2,0.


Re: Double Horn Question    05:28 on Saturday, March 16, 2019          

Scotch
(660 points)
Posted by Scotch

And you're sure you're not conflating written and concert pitch? Because concert C,D,E,F, you know, would be fingered on the F horn as 0,12,2,0 (that is, 000, 110, 010, 000). Have you tried playing just the harmonic series (C G C E G Bb C--F C F A C Eb F), no valves pressed, without the trigger and then with the trigger? Do all the valves and the trigger seem otherwise to be working properly? Is the intonation and tone good?


Re: Double Horn Question    07:54 on Saturday, March 16, 2019          

Markal
(4 points)
Posted by Markal

Hi Scotch, the C I'm playing on the horn corresponds to F below middle C on the piano. I haven't tried the harmonic series and will only have access to the instrument again in two weeks time, but will definetely try it then. The intonation is fine and otherwise there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the mechanical action. Thanks again for responding


Re: Double Horn Question    01:14 on Wednesday, March 27, 2019          

phred
(157 points)
Posted by phred

Hello, I am wondering if the trigger has not been set up to play the Bb side of the horn when open and the F side when depressed. Lots of players will do this, and many horns have the capability of doing this. If the change valve connection to the linkage is mechanical and looks a bit like a 4-leafclover, that's is probably the issue. If you are unfamiliar with horn embouchure, I'd familiarize yourself quickly. It is strange to say the least, and somewhat variable (as with all embouchures) depending on the individuals physiology. But I have worked with so many kids who are taught the incorrect embouchure (and usually by a player of another brass instrument) that take 6 months to a year to unlearn that I'd get straight on this first before moving forward. best of luck


Re: Double Horn Question    08:21 on Tuesday, April 2, 2019          

Markal
(4 points)
Posted by Markal

Hi Phred, thank you very much for the information, greatly appreciated.


   




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